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Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
- Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
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Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Alantriel the Elf > January 4th, 2005, 01:31 AM
***************SPOILERS***************
it gotta say out of all the books i have read including War and Peace, parts of the DaVinci code and more i found Dantes Inferno most disapointing. The symbolism in it really killed me. A teacher in the class i was reading it in pointed out every peice of symbolism there is in it and i gotta say, Dante sure like pointing out meaningless things. When he was writing it like all authors he assumed that the future might be similar to the present. He has good intentions in writing it and some of his descriptions are good but he himself doesn't seem to learn much other thatn to trust Virgil his guide. the reading itself i found rough and i found that i never really could figure out where i was in relations to Dante's ideas of the 9 circles because i emmber that some of the parts like the 18-20something Canto you stayed in one circle.The seventh i believe it was. I also though that the transitiion to some of the circles was not clear. however he came up with some unusual but appropriate punishments. The only thing was the symbolism. darn it it keeps coming back. tell me what you thinkof the book -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
RobRoy > January 12th, 2005, 04:29 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Alantriel the Elf
When he was writing it like all authors he assumed that the future might be similar to the present.
I would argue this point with you only (yes, Dante and symbolism are overstuffed). Dante was critisizing, rather openly, his own world, and taking specific jabs at real individuals, or general types of individuals, he didn't like. I don't know that Danta assumed the future would be similar to his own present. In fact, in writing the book, I would say he was hoping to influence changes, point out fallacies and behaviors that weren't beneficial and so forth.
In effect, he was lobbeying heavily for change. His text is very much a sign of his own times. When my class read the book, they had to replace modern equivilents in each circle of Hell. A kind of forced updating of Dante for the modern reader. I believe English teachers who insisted on symbollism were most often cast into the lowest circle. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Alantriel the Elf > January 13th, 2005, 12:15 AM
Quote:Originally posted by RobRoy
In effect, he was lobbeying heavily for change. His text is very much a sign of his own times. When my class read the book, they had to replace modern equivilents in each circle of Hell. A kind of forced updating of Dante for the modern reader. I believe English teachers who insisted on symbollism were most often cast into the lowest circle.
please chuck them into the lowest circle. It would be no more than they deserve. Symbolism stinks. But Hell was frozen over in the inferno which i found quite ironic and stupid -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
inked > January 13th, 2005, 06:12 PM
AtE,
I am truly sorry that your teacher's emphasis on explication of symbolism has ruined (for now) one othe Great Works of Western Civilization!
I have no idea what translation you read nor what if any informatics it was accompanied. Was it prose or poetic in its form?
Truth is, it is a great read of a great story - but what grade level are we talking for Literature here? Anything less than 12th grade USA would be a bit early, IMHO.
Please note that there are many afficianados of Dante's Divine Comedy (which consists of Inferno, Purgatorio, and Paradisio, by the way) on SFF. And we can't all be wrong.
If you have access to ESSAYS PRESENTED TO CHARLES WILLIAMS, edited by CS LEWIS, in your school or public library, could I ask that you obtain it and read Dorothy L. Sayers essay on Dante. There you will find someone who had an initial school experience of Dante not unlike your own, but who discovered for herself what a great story-teller he was when she grabbed a translation to read during an air-raid in WWII.
She was so taken with the story and the story-teller that she gave up sleep and food to complete the Commedia! And, as she was one the foremost detective novelists of her day, that's saying a great deal. At any rate, she went on to learn Italian and translated about 2.5 / 3.0 of the Commedia before her death. The last bit was completed by her associate Barbara Reynolds.
Ms Sayers translation is excellent for general reading of the text and I was fortunate that my intial experience with Dante was her translation and accompanying informatics. You cannot do better than her materials.
Now, there are many translators of Dante and another excellent one is Ciardi.
It may surprise you to know that I have rather a collection of Dante translations and all of them are compared to the gold standards of John Ciardi and Dorothy L. Sayers. Or it may not!
At any rate, please do not write off this superb work on the basis of this experience - which to put it mildly, seems to have been rather boring and drab and uninspired. I fear that Coccytx may be an altogether appropriate place for teachers of this sort as they be foisting off a love of symbolism rather than a love of literature (but let us not be too harsh remembering that "by which judgment one judges, one shall be judged")!
Besides, if you read the canto describing the devils farts as the trumpet call, I rather think you will change your attitude. It is most amusing in Ms Sayers translation!
Let me know what you think of these ideas. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
inked > January 14th, 2005, 12:12 AM
AtE,
You might find this site interesting here at SFF:https://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/show...post226465
Let me know. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Alantriel the Elf > January 14th, 2005, 12:25 AM
Quote:Originally posted by inked
AtE,
You might find this site interesting here at SFF:https://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/show...post226465
Let me know.
i read the thread and i must say a lot of the ideas are the same as Dante but the ideas of hell and exploration almost always seem weird to me no matter the form of book or whattever -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Camech > January 15th, 2005, 02:56 AM
This is a bit off the topic, but when was Dante's Inferno written? -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
inked > January 15th, 2005, 04:08 AM
Camech,
Not at all. THE DIVINE COMEDY was written over time but the first known copies of Inferno were available in 1314 and Dante died in 1321 on 14 September. The entire work had been completed by then.
Hope this helps.
Penguin Classics has a three volume series translated by Dorothy L. Sayers with extensive notes and Introduction I:HELL, II
URGATORY, and IIIARADISE. You might browse these in your local library of book store. Usually found in the Poetry sections, but may be under Classics.
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Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
RobRoy > January 18th, 2005, 05:13 PM
Alantriel the Elf Wrote:please chuck them into the lowest circle. It would be no more than they deserve. Symbolism stinks.
I have to agree with inked on the saddness this causes me. Symbolism exists in almost every form of entertainment from the subtle to the blatant. I do understand the frustration over high school English teachers who insist on a great deal of symbolism, but on the whole, they are correct. The symbolism is there, and it was placed there (in general) on purpose. It's there to help the audience better understand the concepts the author is trying to get across.
Quote:But Hell was frozen over in the inferno which i found quite ironic and stupid
An interesting reaction. I believe it is only situational irony given the common physical representation of Hell as a firey realm. However, rather than saying that a frozen final level is stupid, perhaps it would be better to ask the question: Why does Dante make the final level a frozen level?
The answer, in itself, is filled to the brim with symbolism regarding life, God, culture and society. It's actually a brilliant move on Dante's part considering. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
inked > January 18th, 2005, 06:36 PM
Well put, RobRoy!
Which goes far to explain why I responded to Aragorn's symbolism gone awry at the Black Gate so distraughtly. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
RobRoy > January 18th, 2005, 08:42 PM
inked Wrote:Well put, RobRoy!
Which goes far to explain why I responded to Aragorn's symbolism gone awry at the Black Gate so distraughtly.
And I certainly do understand your point. I simply don't agree that Aragorn's actions were out of keeping with his character; book or movie.
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Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Alantriel the Elf > January 19th, 2005, 01:06 AM
i still disagree with the fact that he put all of the worst sinners in hell i a frozen over pond. And don't you think that its strange that judas was there even though according to christian legend that he should have been forgiven and sent to heaven? -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
inked > January 19th, 2005, 12:34 PM
AtE,
What reason if any do you think the frozen wastes are Dante's final symbol of Hell?
And, I must correct your impression about Judas, there is no indication in any of the foundational documents that he would be saved from the consequences of his choices to betray Jesus. May I ask why you think he would have been? -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
RobRoy > January 19th, 2005, 02:10 PM
Further, Judas comitted suicide before he requested absolution for his sins. He is thus thrice condemned (according to Catholic tradition). Condemned for betraying Christ, condemned for killing himself, and condemned for not confessing or asking absolution before he died.
Catholicism is a harsh faith at times.
But yes, I must agree with inked. Why do you think that the sinners are stuck in ice? Why does Dante make the final level of Hell a frozen waste?
Dante had a reason, a very, very good reason, and it embodies (I'm sorry to say to you) heavy symbolism regarding belief in God and the position of Satan in Hell along with all of these great (according to Dante) sinners. If you'll work with us, I think we can help you better understand Dante's point here. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Michael > January 19th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Dante's frozen hell isn't unique to him. That was the way people in the Middle Ages viewed hell (which is different from the lake of fire that many people associate with that name nowadays).
I didn't much like reading the work myself, but it was, as pointed out above, an indictment of hypocrisy in the Church and society in general. Many people who claimed or pretended to be pious were, in fact, well-known to be indulging in lives of sin.
You probably would not enjoy Spencer's "Faerie Queen" much if taught under similar circumstances, as it is a similar type of commentary, heavily woven through with symbols referring to then living people. -
Dantes Inferno and my hell through it
Alantriel the Elf > January 25th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Michael i might enjoy it because 95 percent of the books i read are on my own and i would like to try this one giving a adequite description of what it is