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Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
- Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
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Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
Abyss of Borg > September 12th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Well to me it seems like in all the Klingon death and suicide rituals are illegal in the Federation like the DS9 episode "The Sons of Mogh" Sisko was extremly angry at Worf for attempting to perform the death ritual and didn't allow Worf to practice his beliefs. In all episodes with Worf he wears the traditional Klingon strap thing and other cultures like Bajorans in starfleet can't wear their traditional earings as mentioned by Riker in one episode. On the other hand in the TNG episode "Reunion" Worf kills that one Klingon officer who had killed his former lover with just Picard a little angry but no real consquences even though he sucessfully killed him without interference. What do you think of this matter? -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
SpringfieldST > September 19th, 2005, 10:57 PM
Abyss of Borg Wrote:Well to me it seems like in all the Klingon death and suicide rituals are illegal in the Federation like the DS9 episode "The Sons of Mogh" Sisko was extremly angry at Worf for attempting to perform the death ritual and didn't allow Worf to practice his beliefs. In all episodes with Worf he wears the traditional Klingon strap thing and other cultures like Bajorans in starfleet can't wear their traditional earings as mentioned by Riker in one episode. On the other hand in the TNG episode "Reunion" Worf kills that one Klingon officer who had killed his former lover with just Picard a little angry but no real consquences even though he sucessfully killed him without interference. What do you think of this matter?
I want to say I recall other Bajorans wearing their customary jewelery with their uniform. The episode you reference is called "Ensign Ro" from TNG. It is Ro Laren's first appearance in the series and Riker is giving her hard time because she has had some discipline problems in the past.
I find it hard to believe that with StarFleet's multi-cultural beliefs that they would openly allow one cultures grab and disallow anothers. -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
RobRoy > September 20th, 2005, 02:31 PM
Abyss of Borg Wrote:Well to me it seems like in all the Klingon death and suicide rituals are illegal in the Federation like the DS9 episode "The Sons of Mogh" Sisko was extremly angry at Worf for attempting to perform the death ritual and didn't allow Worf to practice his beliefs.
I believe the issue was more one of Worf wanting to kill himself, when others felt it wasn't really a good time for such a ritual. Recall that when Worf was paralyzed, he asked Riker to help him kill himself, and Riker refused. It was a very conflicting issue, and one that Riker felt was not the right time for such a tradition/belief/practice to be carried out.
Quote:In all episodes with Worf he wears the traditional Klingon strap thing and other cultures like Bajorans in starfleet can't wear their traditional earings as mentioned by Riker in one episode.
As Springfield points out, that had more to do with other issues that Ro Laren (sp) had, and not just a general rule against such things. At the end of the same episode, Ro put her earring back on, and Riker allowed it.
Quote:On the other hand in the TNG episode "Reunion" Worf kills that one Klingon officer who had killed his former lover with just Picard a little angry but no real consquences even though he sucessfully killed him without interference. What do you think of this matter?
As I recall, Picard took Worf to task for this, and likely it went into Worf's record as an incident. Picard did admit, however, that he understood Worf's actions in this matter.
Worf didn't often disobey rules and regulations. He would not have risen to become an officer if he had. His discipline and dedication to Star Fleet were pretty much unquestioned, and any minor incidents would likely be regarded as just that.
On the other hand, when Worf failed to complete his mission, and instead returned for Jadzia Dax to save her, he jeopardized his entire Star Fleet career. As I recall, Sisko informed he that he would likely never achieve a captain's rank. So it's not like there weren't consequences for these things. -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
SpringfieldST > September 20th, 2005, 08:30 PM
RobRoy Wrote:Worf didn't often disobey rules and regulations. He would not have risen to become an officer if he had. His discipline and dedication to Star Fleet were pretty much unquestioned, and any minor incidents would likely be regarded as just that.
Klingons, and Worf especially, consider honor to be the most important virtue in one's life. Worf was a very dedicated officer in StarFleet and even more dedicated to Capt. Picard. In BoBW (I think that is the episode this takes place in), when Picard is kidnapped by the Borg, Worf takes the incident very personally for not being able to protect the captain. And in another adventure, I think one of the movies, Worf becomes upset with one of Picard's deicisions and says "If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand." That sort of restraint from a Klingon shows how much respect and love he had for Picard. -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
RobRoy > September 21st, 2005, 12:57 PM
SpringfieldST Wrote:And in another adventure, I think one of the movies, Worf becomes upset with one of Picard's deicisions and says "If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand." That sort of restraint from a Klingon shows how much respect and love he had for Picard.
Yes, it was in Star Trek: First Contact where Picard is refusing to blow up the Enterprise and called Worf a coward. That's not just slapping Worf with a glove, that's throwing the whole suit of armor at him, and telling him his mother wore combat boots!
The restraint of that moment is clear on Worf's face, and the fact that he verbally threatens Picard is even more poignant. -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
U.S.S. Phoenix > September 26th, 2005, 03:45 PM
RobRoy Wrote:Yes, it was in Star Trek: First Contact where Picard is refusing to blow up the Enterprise and called Worf a coward. That's not just slapping Worf with a glove, that's throwing the whole suit of armor at him, and telling him his mother wore combat boots!
The restraint of that moment is clear on Worf's face, and the fact that he verbally threatens Picard is even more poignant.
Keep in mind that in Klingon saysing "Your mother wore combat boots!" would be a compliment. They *are* a warrior race, remember.
But yes, that was an extremely powerfull moment. For any Klingon, even Worf, to *not* kill someone when they have a good reason to is unheard of. -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
SpringfieldST > September 27th, 2005, 10:31 AM
U.S.S. Phoenix Wrote:Keep in mind that in Klingon saysing "Your mother wore combat boots!" would be a compliment. They *are* a warrior race, remember.
But yes, that was an extremely powerfull moment. For any Klingon, even Worf, to *not* kill someone when they have a good reason to is unheard of.
Worf was a very unique Klingon. That is reinforced throughout the franchise. From his early years being raised by humans through his service with the Federation, Worf is not like most other Klingons, and many in the Empire resent him for this. -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
RobRoy > September 27th, 2005, 12:41 PM
SpringfieldST Wrote:Worf was a very unique Klingon. That is reinforced throughout the franchise. From his early years being raised by humans through his service with the Federation, Worf is not like most other Klingons, and many in the Empire resent him for this.
Yeppers. He is in some ways more than a Klingon and in others less. More in that being apart from other Klingons he tried to become as Klingon as possible, and in a way took it to extremes. But less in that at times he forgot that Klingons enjoy life as much as anyone else, and in some ways more. Guinnan once had to point out that she's heard some amazing "belly laughs" from Klingons that she had known . . . this while beating Worf at target practice. :bg: -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
U.S.S. Phoenix > September 28th, 2005, 05:16 PM
I just watched "Let he who is without sin..."(DS9), and it bring up an interesting point about Worf's past. Apparently when he was a kid he was playing soccer (Keep in mind he was raised by humans, so naturally he was playing against humans), and he and another kid went to head the ball and they banged heads (which worf didn't notice), and the other kid died. And since then he's always been really big on self control. It answers a lot of questions about him... -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
RobRoy > September 29th, 2005, 11:51 AM
U.S.S. Phoenix Wrote:I just watched "Let he who is without sin..."(DS9), and it bring up an interesting point about Worf's past. Apparently when he was a kid he was playing soccer (Keep in mind he was raised by humans, so naturally he was playing against humans), and he and another kid went to head the ball and they banged heads (which worf didn't notice), and the other kid died. And since then he's always been really big on self control. It answers a lot of questions about him...
I wonder if there weren't other instances of this kind of problem. I've heard a lot of "big" men say that they worry about wrestling too hard, or grabbing too fast, because they don't want to hurt someone accidentally. I'm a tall man, but not big, and usually I was the one being hurt!
But still, since Worf's musculature and development would have made him stronger, faster, etc. than most of the other kids his age, I wonder if he didn't have similar problems on a smaller scale that culminated in the unfortunate soccer incident (which I didn't recall at all).
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Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
SpringfieldST > September 29th, 2005, 02:28 PM
RobRoy Wrote:I wonder if there weren't other instances of this kind of problem. I've heard a lot of "big" men say that they worry about wrestling too hard, or grabbing too fast, because they don't want to hurt someone accidentally. I'm a tall man, but not big, and usually I was the one being hurt!
But still, since Worf's musculature and development would have made him stronger, faster, etc. than most of the other kids his age, I wonder if he didn't have similar problems on a smaller scale that culminated in the unfortunate soccer incident (which I didn't recall at all).
Or could the incident have been due to the shape and design of the Klingon cranium? -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
pr1983 > September 30th, 2005, 02:42 AM
yeah, the fact that the klingon spine continues over the skull... anybody stupid enough to headbutt a klingon in normal cases would be pretty badly injured, but a child would be almost certainly killed... -
Klingon Customs vs. Federation Law
RobRoy > September 30th, 2005, 12:14 PM
SpringfieldST Wrote:Or could the incident have been due to the shape and design of the Klingon cranium?
[caveat]I'm not a doctor or osteo-specialist.[/caveat]
Well, in thinking about it, we know that Klingons have thicker, stronger, tougher, redundant everything. But the Klingon cranium, except for the forehead ridges, isn't really all that different from the human. The ridges aren't pointed or anything, although they are probably thicker, and certainly could be used to head-butt or take a blow, with less impact to the one taking the strike or delivering the blow.
But I regard this more in the manner of a pair of boxing gloves. They are not designed to cushion the blow from the individual being struck, but rather prevent damage from to the hands.
So in the matter of the soccer playing incident, I would think that Worf didn't even know he was struck very hard, given the bone density of his skull, etc. as discussed above. But also the strength of the Klingon was proportionately greater, and the strike therefor also greater.
Combination of genetics and unfortunate circumstances.