gzhindra > February 28th, 2024, 03:19 PM
Michael > February 29th, 2024, 01:43 AM
gzhindra > February 29th, 2024, 08:59 AM
(February 29th, 2024, 01:43 AM)Michael Wrote: I'm not sure Anduril was as restricted in practical use as you say. I know Aragorn threatened the whole of Rohan if anyone touched his sword, but he may have just been talking (expecting the Rohirrim to respect his rights).
RobRoy > February 29th, 2024, 02:38 PM
(February 29th, 2024, 08:59 AM)gzhindra Wrote: In the same manner I dont think Aragorn would be bluffing or lying about Anduril.
gzhindra > March 1st, 2024, 02:13 PM
RobRoy > March 1st, 2024, 07:35 PM
(March 1st, 2024, 02:13 PM)gzhindra Wrote: If nothing stops another user from wielding Anduril.
Then that means that Aragorn is threatening any others that use the sword.
He would have to make good on his promises.
Is he going to attack Rohan on his own?
(February 29th, 2024, 02:38 PM)RobRoy Wrote: Instead, since this is a matter of will, as Aragorn opened the argument with, then his command is meant to show his legitimacy and inherent power. It works too:
Quote:Anyway we know that the Palantirs were lawfully owned by the heirs of Elendil,
so i think that the question still stands🤔
Michael > March 6th, 2024, 11:50 AM
RobRoy > March 7th, 2024, 06:59 PM
(March 6th, 2024, 11:50 AM)Michael Wrote: Perhaps I'm reading a bit too much into the passage, but boasting and courage were supposedly highly valued among the ancient Germanic/Scandinavian tribes upon whom Tolkien modelled the Rohirrim. I'd say Aragorn was acting appropriately for their culture. He had lived among them and ridden with the Riders of Rohan. He knew how to talk to them.
He would not have made an empty boast. But he stated his terms of wardenship clearly to Hama, so that everyone who understand his sword wasn't simply a piece of metal in a scabbard.
Mordomin > March 10th, 2024, 08:52 AM
Michael > March 10th, 2024, 11:34 PM
Mordomin > March 18th, 2024, 05:19 AM
(March 10th, 2024, 11:34 PM)Michael Wrote: Tolkien seems to imply that Aranarth made that decision after Angmar was defeated. He decided not to revive the Kingdom of Arnor (nor any lesser realm) and gave the heirlooms of the realm to Elrond for safe-keeping.I think that Aranarth knew well the words of Malbeth the Seer about his fate, and the fate of his father:
(March 10th, 2024, 11:34 PM)Michael Wrote: On the basis of that (as well as elements in "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen") I argued in my essay Of Thegns and Kings and Rangers and Things that "Aranarth simply created a public trust to hold the kingdom in perpetual abeyance."I followed your link to your essay, and as usual learned so much and saw so many different views and takes that my head ached for days. LOL! Thank you for all of your essays, even the ones that I haven't discovered yet.
badlands > March 20th, 2024, 01:03 PM
RobRoy > March 20th, 2024, 02:05 PM
(March 20th, 2024, 01:03 PM)badlands Wrote: Was private property a thing in Middle earth? Sauron was real estate agent.
Michael > March 21st, 2024, 12:47 AM
(March 18th, 2024, 05:19 AM)Mordomin Wrote:(March 10th, 2024, 11:34 PM)Michael Wrote: [quote="Michael" pid='373593' dateline='1710124455']I followed your link to your essay, and as usual learned so much and saw so many different views and takes that my head ached for days. LOL! Thank you for all of your essays, even the ones that I haven't discovered yet.
On the basis of that (as well as elements in "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen") I argued in my essay Of Thegns and Kings and Rangers and Things that "Aranarth simply created a public trust to hold the kingdom in perpetual abeyance."
But I strongly object to your insertion of a modern world concept "public trust" into a discussion of a High Fantasy story.
badlands > March 21st, 2024, 10:30 PM
Mordomin > March 22nd, 2024, 08:26 PM
(March 21st, 2024, 12:47 AM)Michael Wrote: It does sound like a modern concept, does it not?And I hesitate to call it relevant to High Fantasy. Who are you positing that the Romans are/equivalent to in Middle-earth?
However, the idea of "public trust" originated with the ancient Romans.
The Public Trust Doctrine: A Cracked Foundation | Georgetown Environmental Law Review | Georgetown Law
That may not be quite ancient enough for the Kingdom of Arnor (in Tolkien's timeline), but I hesitate to call it "modern".
Alvin Eriol > March 25th, 2024, 02:27 PM
Michael > March 29th, 2024, 03:22 AM
(March 22nd, 2024, 08:26 PM)Mordomin Wrote: And I hesitate to call it relevant to High Fantasy. Who are you positing that the Romans are/equivalent to in Middle-earth?
Quote:Aranath heeded the words of Malbeth the Seer, and did not seek to declare himself King. Knowing that he was unable to securely guard the Heirlooms of the North Kingdom, he gave them to Elrond in Rivendell for safekeeping.
Quote:[As a side note, why didn't Elrond send them on to Gondor?]
Quote:It was no "Public Trust". No one could walk into Rivendell and say "Hi! I'm from Arnor. Give me our stuff." The idea is absurd.
A better example of a "Public Trust" in High Fantasy might be the Sword in the Stone of Arthurian Legend.
Mordomin > April 3rd, 2024, 06:28 AM
(March 29th, 2024, 03:22 AM)Michael Wrote: I shall quibble over a prefix: "1976 Aranarth takes the title of Chieftain of the Dúnedain. The heirlooms of Arnor are given into the keeping of Elrond." That is, btw, about 2 years after the end of the North-kingdom and the year following the defeat of Angmar.I don't think it was "so long" for him to make this decision.
Why did he wait so long to make this decision? Methinks there were councils and consultations.
Michael > April 3rd, 2024, 12:31 PM