Yeh! I remembered on the way to work this morning!

: Tu must remain a mystery as he does not reappear. We certainly can't call him a Maia as Tolkien had not invented that category at that stage!

Although the term Maia may not have been invented at this point, I believe that Tu must have been one of the beings which would, as we now know, eventually be called Maia. We know that some Maia stayed in Middle Earth and we also know that Tu was not an elf - during a time before the awakening of men. Therefore what other sort of being could he be?

: It seems most likely he is a precursor to Sauron (whom Tolkien first called Thu). Although in the Book of Lost Tales (HOME vols. 1 & 2) the role later played by Sauron (Beren's captor) is played by Tevildo, Prince of Cats. We might speculate that Thu arose as a combination of the name and description of Tu (a wizard) with the role of Tevildo.

Naah. I'm not convinced! Maybe cause I don't want to be and then again maybe otherwise. I like the idea of Tuvo being one of those independant Maia types, still part of Eru great song, but trying to discover their own niche within it, just like old Tom.

: It is a pity that Tolkien did forget about Tu and his discovery of the Sleeping Men, as it could have got him out of a tight spot re the origin of the Orcs.

: In HOME vol. 10 we learn that Tolkien eventually abandoned the idea that the Orcs were bred from Elves and decided they were bred from Men. But that meant pushing the Awakening of Men well back, long before the Rising of the Sun, which doesn't really fit with the rest of the Silmarillion story.

: But, if we make Tu into Sauron, we can solve the problem. Sauron was chiefly responsible for breeding the Orcs, whilst Morgoth was in prison in Mandos (see HOME 10:416ff). So perhaps Sauron found the Sleeping Fathers of Men and awakended some of the prematurely, and from them bred the Orcs.

: This allows for the Orcs to be of Mannish descent, but still allows for the proper awakening of men to have occured at the Rising of the Sun.

: But unfortunately Tolkien forgot about Tu, so this very neat solution to his problem did not occur to him.

Bummer!

: P.S. Who say Tom and Goldberry were Maiar? Tom was Aule and Goldberry was Yavanna!

Tom and Goldberry - Aule and Yavanna! Where did you get this from! I havn't read all the 12 volumns so I can't speak with any authority about all their contents, but I'm sure that is says somewhere that after Valinor was 'removed', after the fall of Numenor, none of the Valar left, with the exception of Ulmo! Therefore Tom and Goldberry, just couldn't be Aule and Yavanna!

Padster