Posted: October 14, 1998 at 16:12:18: by Patience
: Wow! Now here's an issue that the world has been wrestling with for a while. If you read Tolkien's creation account in The Silmarillion you will find that to the Valar was revealed much, but not all of what the history of Middle Earth would be, as that history is an 'acting out' or fulfillment of the music they made before Illuvatar. So you get a definite understanding that most of the 'history' was set before it began, but that several key points were dark to the Valar (though I don't know if Tolkien mentioned if Illuvatar knew what would happen at those points. That's a good place to go to better understand his views). It is a great read even outside of this question, so if you haven't read it recently, do so.: Myself, I firmly believe in free will - just as strongly as I believe in 'predestination'. It is a seeming paradox, but I believe God knows everything and every choice before it happens, yet the choices are still free. I can't explain how that would be except to give you a word picture. : Suppose you are in a helicopter over a twisty two-lane highway on the coast. Looking down you see two cars headed north, one trying recklessly to pass the other. Heading south you see a large truck. You see the rear car pull out to pass into the oncoming lane. He doesn't know his choice is leading to a terrific crash, but you do. In a sense you know his future, but are not guiding it. Take that to the level of an all-knowing God who created time itself. He resides beyond time. In a sense, the whole history of the earth has already happened. He knows all the choices that will be/have been made. But they are still choices. : I love this metaphysical stuff... 8-)
: -Steve I think you have it right, Steve...Illuvatar, and to a slightly lesser degree the Valar, know what's going on and have pledged to stay out of it, to let the choices take their appointed paths. However, why did Gandalf (Olorin?) get involved then? Was his involvement part of the overall plan or did he just have an attack of worries about Middle Earth and decide that he should lend a hand? And was he sent or did he choose to come on his own (did somebody else bring this to his attention, like his 'superiors' or did he view the situation and say this has gotta stop)?
Does Gandalf, being a 'lesser God,' have freedom of choice as well? Patience
|
