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Re: White Council / Erestor | White Council Forum Archive - msg 1996

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Topic: Re: White Council / Erestor    Reply to: msg 1988
Posted: January 12, 1999 at 12:43:46: by Oberon
[...]

: : 3. Were any leaders of men ever part of the council? That's the
: : part that confuses me most. I don't remember ever reading
: : anything that suggests they were included. I would think that
: : with the might of the elves fading and men growing stronger,
: : that they (i.e. those of Numenorean descent) would be naturally
: : included in trying to stop the growing shadow.

: The Council was said to consist of Eldar and Istari. That would preclude any Men serving on it. I do note, however, that Tolkien referred (in one of his letters, I think) to the White Council as the chief or overall governing body of the Free Peoples in their opposition to Sauron. Not intended to convey a government, but rather the highest body for policy making. That would imply that Gondor (and not just the Dunedain of Arnor) would have been in contact with the Council. Faramir does tell Frodo that Men from Gondor have gone to Lorien, but the event has become rare by their day. It seems plausible the Stewards sent emmissaries to Lorien on occasion to consult with Galadriel and/or perhaps the White Council (which seems to have met there).

It seems that by the last years of the Third Age, any contact that might have existed between the Council (or Rivendell) and Gondor had grown tenuous indeed. Denethor had no clear idea of the location of Rivendell when he sent Boromir north to seek the answer to the riddle of the dream. More likely, such contact as existed was between Stewards and the one Council member who visited Gondor (with some frequency, no less) and indeed served Gondor in an official capacity: Saruman. Gandalf visited Minas Tirith on at least a few occasions, and so he might have been another point of contact. But that's just speculation. Tolkien provides little information, as Michael points out.

My sense is that Men weren't on the Council. As the Councils were held in Rivendell, the Chieftains of the Dunedain of the North might have sat in on the Councils (or some of them), possibly. It seems unlikely (and there's no evidence) that Gondor was in any way represented, though the Stewards may have been kept abreast of the Council's doings by Saruman or other messengers. Gondor was mostly absorbed in its own troubles, at any rate. But again, as Michael says:

: That's all largely guesswork, of course.




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