: : Returning to the Numenoreans, we can assume that they would be capable of building ships up to this size limitation and as their ships had to be capable of ocean voyages they would not have attempted to build beyond the limitations as their sailing abilities would have been badly compromised.

: Population estimates - one of my favorite topics as well.

: There *is* a built-in assumption on your part here - the strength and density of the wood involved. If we assume that the nature of trees in Second Age Middle Earth (or Numenor) is little different from contemporary trees, your point stands. And some of Tolkien's comments about trees make me wonder on this score. There is also another possibility: that the Numenoreans used special arts - or what we might call "magic" - to give special strength to the wood. We simply don't know.

: Assuming the same wood and (largely) the same naval technology, I'm inclined to agree with Michael that the survivors likely did not number more than a few thousand. They needed room not only for a few weeks of stores and food, but also for the numerous artifacts, weapons, etc. that they intended to take with them - and I doubt that they would have packed their womenfolk and children cheek by jowel like British tars.

: And yet...even granting the power and stature of the Numenoreans at their height, one wonders how they achieved so much with so few numbers - particularly in view of the mighty host they were able to raise a mere century later for the War of the Last Alliance. Numenorean fertility being what it was, I can't imagine there was a sudden population explosion to account for it.

: It will be pointed out, of course, that many of the Faithful had already left for Middle Earth. Tolkien, however, only makes reference to significant numbers settling about the mouths of Anduin. What of Eriador? Only four ships arrived in the North, which is not much to build a kingdom out of, let alone the mighty host that gathered at Rivendell a century later. I think we must allow for the possibility that more sailed with Elendil than suspected, and therefore that, by special arts, the ships were larger as well. The only other possibility is that large numbers of the faithful had left for Eriador (as well as Pelargir) in the weeks - and years - before the Downfall.

I have given some defence to my assumptions on wood-strength and man-packing in other posts. I do admit that they are assumptions, however.

One of the irritating and intriguing aspects of Tolkien's work is his vagueness on populations and also the mechanics of how peoples make their mundane day-to-day livelihoods.

I agree that the notes we are given on the pre-Akkalabeth settlements of the Faithful don't give the impression of great population numbers. Indeed if the arrival of a mere 9 ships led to the creation of 3 kingdoms where before there were apparently only a few coastal settlements then this argues for the prior populations being relatively small.

The possibility which springs to mind is that the major part of the hosts Elendil and his sons led were not Numenorean by origin. The folk of the highlands flanking The White Mountains renaged on their agreement with Isildur - but perhaps the native folk of Lebennin, Belfalas etc. didn't. Also if the Beorian folk of central Eriador, which the Numenoreans had contacted in the Second Age, had survived Sauron's onslaught in any numbers Elendil would have had a ready population of close-kindred to his Numenoreans to furnish troops for his army and burgesses for his new town(s).