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Re: The Genders of the Valar... | White Council Forum Archive - msg 2452

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Topic: Re: The Genders of the Valar...    Reply to: msg 2415
Posted: February 24, 1999 at 23:29:29: by Ian

: : : : Though this is not a topic I have recently seen discussed,
: : : : what reason did Tolkien have for giving the Valar genders. I
: : : : understand in most mythologies, the theme of powerful
: : : : indivuals acquiring their abilities from their godly
: : : : ancestory is present. I understand the reasoning for giving
: : : : the Maiar genders, but why the Valar. Tolkien mentions
: : : : somewhere in the Silmarillion I believe, that the Valar
: : : : marriages were different in the since from our perception of
: : : : marriages. This is one question that truly puzzles me.

: : : In some of Tolkiens earlier(?) work he had the Valar have
: : : children. Fionwë (Eonwë) was supposedly the child of Manwë and
: : : Varda.

: : : Genders really weren't that important. I read up on this
: : : subject a few years back, and if recall correctly, genders
: : : were more a representation of personality. Tulkas, for
: : : example, is a great warrior, a classic male roll. Therefore he
: : : embodies a male.

: : : But keep in mind, Valar and Maiar have no bodies. They can
: : : take any form that pleases them, so I wouldn't really say that
: : : any of the Maia or Vala have genders at all.

: : Well, in the conception published in THE SILMARILLION they have what might be called an inherent gender preference -- hence, the distinction of "male" and "female" among them was there.

: : I believe Tolkien was simply holding gender over from the original mythology for England which had abandoned. As some people have noted in past discussions, he began to return in some ways to that concept late in his life, and had he lived to finish his work (if he could have) he might have altered all the stories incredibly in several ways. One way would have been the restoration of Aelfwine, the Anglo-Saxon traveller who uncovered the ancient stories and preserved them (although how he would tie all that into the RED BOOK OF WESTMARCH, I'm not sure).

: : On the other hand, Tolkien was moving away from the original mythology altogether. He created male and female gods as seemed appropriate according to "real" or "folk" mythologies of the northern world. Their genders seem to be more important in real mythology. But after THE LORD OF THE RINGS was published, when Tolkien turned his



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