Posted: February 27, 1999 at 02:23:26: by Davewise
: : I've read before that JRR's concept was that ME was actually our Earth in an imagined time, and that the particular Lands described in LOTR were roughly the equivalent of Northern Europe in terms of geography, climate, etc. Interesting that he would include tobacco, which is a plant native to the Americas, and whose use among Europeans dates only back to the discovery of the New World. This appears to be a rare example of JRR ignoring known history and re-writing the discovery of tobacco to take place in his imagined time. The technology of ME (aside from the magically enhanced stuff like Gandalf's fireworks) appears consistent with Midieval Europe with the curious exception of pipeweed. The inclusion of custom that was practiced by only a few Native American tribes until the 15th century seems odd.: : That being said, I think including pipeweed makes the hobbits more familiar and enhances the values of "home" and "comfort" that the Hobbits recall on their journeys. Somehow a lit pipe completes the picture of a comfy chair in front of a warm fire. : I would think that comes primarily of the fact that The Hobbit, being pretty much a children's tale, was not originally completely 'folded in' (or harmonized) to the rest of the Middle Earth mythology that Tolkien was developing, that was later published as The Silmarillion. There are several things that crop up other than smoking that are hard to reconcile with the rest. Gandalf speaking of finding a nice giant to stop up the goblin's hole, Beorn & his shape-shifting abilities, even the gaity of the elves' song when Bilbo arrives in Rivendell (it didn't sound to me like the sad, ancient, noble Noldor race that it was revealed as in LotR) come readily to mind. He included references to that mythology in The Hobbit (the swords' origin in Gondolin, for instance), giving it a nice, ancient feel, but I don't think he originally intended it to necessarily fit in 100% with that mythology that was still evolving. When he decided to do the sequel that turned into Lord of the Rings, he then made the connection more solid. That's my take. For reality, wait until Michael responds. His posts are more authoritative. [And I appreciate that:^) ] : -Steve S. I agree with both of your views. I've felt that The Hobbit, although in all ways the very real and critical precursor to the LOTR, was written in the much more relaxed style of a children's book with Gandalf using expressions like "Great Elephants!", the trolls having such colloquial British names and accents, goblins being described as being delighted with "wheels and engines and explosions," and Beorn's roar at the Battle of the Five Armies likened to "drums and guns." (That probably explains why I was able to read The Hobbit at age 7 but didn't successfully tackle the LOTR until 11.) In the LOTR, the style is tighter and more consistent; virtually all the anachronisms are removed. I think that his in part due to his maturing as an author and also having a different target audience in mind for the work. (Informally, I also explained it to myself as being a difference in the writing styles between Bilbo and the graver Frodo since they completed different sections of the Red Book) Interestingly, though, he does persist with pipeweed, mentioning it not once or twice but regularly throughout all 3 volumes. I believe that he does this to set the hobbits apart from the other races and perhaps make it easier for the modern reader to identify with them. To be sure, hobbit society and the general look and feel of the Shire was in part inspired by the Staffordshire and Shropshire countryside of Tolkien's youth. Furthermore, there is another New World anachronism: potatoes. The Gaffer grows them in volume 1 and Sam hankers for them in volume 2. He even mentions that most British of dishes, fish and chips!
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