White Council

Re: Nice, but.... | White Council Forum Archive - msg 3546

White Council Forum Archive
Original Xenite.Org White Council Forum Archive

Site Map


All Archives Top White Council Archive Index Archive 17 Index


VISIT LIVE TOLKIEN FORUM
Topic: Re: Nice, but....    Reply to: msg 3537
Posted: June 13, 1999 at 00:25:15: by Michael Martinez
: British accents will be better because at least it will be true
: to the style and diction which Tolkien wrote for his
: characters.

Not necessarily. I've been to London a couple of times and people there don't speak like the characters in the book. Nor do many of the British people whom I've heard on television. Life has moved on while the idioms in THE LORD OF THE RINGS have remained static. The argument that the book belongs only to British accents is emotional and not really critical.

There are people, like me, who don't hear British accents when we read the book. Why should we? Such accents aren't natural to us.

: Yes, the Rohirrim are supposed to have a different accent from
: the hobbits, etc. But did Tolkien really make that obvious
: from the words he chose?

Actually, he did. The Rohirrim who speak Westron do so in a very formalized, learned speech. The Hobbits (and Gimli to some extent) speak a more colloquial form of speech. The Elves also speak in a very formalized way, although somewhat differently from the Rohirrim (and the Dunedain, whose speech the Rohirrim sort of mimic but not completely).

When a common guardsman walks around sounding like a grand noble from an ancient story as Pippin gives out his too-intimate "you's" and "we's", the speech patterns are noticeably different.

: Maybe there are subtle differences in style, but then they are
: very subtle, and still very English. An American or a German
: simply cannot pull off the dialogue and make it seem real.
: Hey, I'm Indian, and if I hear an Indian accent in this movie,
: I'm getting up and walking out.

Why? Suppose, for some reason, Jackson decides to give a speaking part to one of the Southrons who appear to be loosely based on Indians? It would be extremely awkward if that prince or captain came across to the audience like Tom Shippey (whose voice, btw, I find to be very easy to listen to -- his lectures must be pretty interesting, assuming the students are interested in the topic matter).

: Let's face it: Tolkien's style is a bit archaic. It's an older
: English, and that's why it deserves English accents to make it
: really come alive.

Well, it's a bit fudged, and none too homogenized. He deliberately selected different vocal styles for the characters because he couldn't convey the types of accents they would have.

: As for "dubbed" versions, it doesn't really matter does it?

Why not? Bad dubbing in English can spoil the enjoyability of a film. I'm sure the same rule applies in other languages.

: This is an English language film and is being made for English
: speakers. I don't think that the director should be worried
: about about what the Japanese dubbed version really sounds
: like.

I doubt that any major film is being made only for English-language speakers these days. American-style cinema has dominated the world since the last world war (for obvious reasons). It's generally expected these movies will be dubbed or sub-titled for non-English speaking audiences at some point, even though most large countries now have quite substantial film industries of their own (India being perhaps one of the largest and most successful outside of the American community).

: And I beg to differ about accents not making the film. If I
: have to sit through some bozo with an accent like my American
: twang saying things like, "Strider I am to one fat man who
: lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart
: or lay his little town in ruin", I'm going to laugh. That's
: just not something that an American can pull off, I believe.
: Moreover, dialogue is a huge part of any movie...if you don't
: believe what the person is saying, how is he/she a believable
: or sympathetic character? And if Peter Jackson changes the
: diaglogue so much that it then fits an American idiom, well I
: think that will stink. Tolkien's language is beatiful, and
: it's one of the reasons the book is so loved.

I don't know if Jackson plans to use dialogue from the book. I have formed the impression he will try to follow it wherever possible, but the fact that he's emphasizing the story of Aragorn and Arwen may demand that he introduce a lot of non-canonical dialogue. In fact, the conceptual art showing them on the bridge at Rivendell leads me to believe Jackson is going to add several such scenes to the movie to fill out their story.

: As for the Aneid, the comparison does not work. The Aneid is
: an epic written in a foreign language and then
: translated. Moreover, it's ancient--a time before the English
: language even existed. Any translation is just that: a
: translation only.

: Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, was written in English
: and is being filmed using the English language. That's a
: totally different situation. I don't really care about the
: dogma of accents in terms of making each race different. I
: just want to see a relatively faithful adapation, and if I see
: Kevin Costner or somesuch bozo bumbling around in Middle-earth,
: I fear the movie will not be faithful to the author's
: intentions.

But Middle-earth is not England and is not the purview of the English. That's the problem. Middle-earth is the entire world, and the story takes place in a part of Middle-earth that roughly corresponds to Europe. It would be unfaithful to the book if everyone spoke the same way.


------------------
The Fairy Tales of J.R.R. Tolkien: Roverandom, Farmer Giles of Ham, Smith of Wootton Major



Contact us | SF Fandom | Privacy Statement


SF Fandom Sites

SciFi Forums
Archives
Forum Short Addresses
Other SciFi Sites

Xenite.Org Network

Science Fiction & Fantasy
SF Fandom
SF Worlds
The Queen of Swords
Tolkien Studies

Popular Network Sites

Entertainment Search Engine
Grace Park
Harry Potter News
History of Xena
Lord of the Rings News
Mizuo Peck
Poster Store
SciFi Search Engine
Star Wars News
White Cheese Dip
Witch World Page
Xena: Warrior Princess
 

This page is copyright © 1997-2007 by Michael L. Martinez. All rights reserved.
No portions of this page may be reproduced electronically or otherwise without express permission from the copyright holder, except as occurs in normal browser caching and page indexing.

No random scifi pages were incorporated into this archive. However, the truth about Balrogs may have been mentioned at least once. Learn more about Balrog of Moria. Read more Tolkien Essays.

Created by SEO Specialist Michael Martinez. Search engine optimization and search engine optimization provided by SE cOnsulting.