Posted: September 01, 1999 at 13:22:57: by Olorin
: : : : In Mythology there were Dark Elves and Light Elves and there
: : : were also
: : : : Fairies, Bogeys, and all kinds of other creatures. Dark elves
: : : caused
: : : : nightmares and illness...In the 20th century Dark Elves of
: : : Science fiction
: : : : like the Drow are Demonic. Are Orcs to be considered equivalent
: : : to Dark
: : : : Elves? Also...What the Heck is a Gobb: : :
: : : I only know that Dark Elves in norse myths are the equivelent of
: : : dwarves, and Light Elves considered as nymphs, i believe.
: : : Tolkien thought for a while that orcs were Morgoth's retardation
: : : of the elves, but i believe he abandoned that theory since orcs
: : : were not immortal (and for some other reasons that i don't now
: : : recall)...................... : : He made the orcs in mockery of the elves, so they didnt have to be immortal, just like the way trolls are mockery of ents : Where is that said, in the Sil.? in Peoples it is said that he intended to change the concept of orks either to be "gene-engineered" Men or to be mere beasts. I do not remember which book or exactly what is said, and I do not think he ever made up his mind about Orks.
: ;-) Neithan Turambar In the Silmarillion, in Chapter 3, "Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor", Tolkien states (page 50 softcover):
"But of those unhappy ones [Elves] who were ensnared by Melkor little is known of a certainty. For who of the living has descended into the pits of Utumno, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Melkor? Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs..." In Chapter 10, "Of the Sindar", Tolkien says (page 106 softcover):
"Whence [the Orcs] came, or what they were, the Elves knew not then, thinking them perhaps to be Avari who had become evil and savage in the wild; in which they guessed all to near, it is said." In note 5 to the essay on the Drúedain, Tolkien says that many Elves thought that the Orcs were bred from Drúedain stock. The Drûgs and the Orcs considered each other to be "renegades". (This was an author's note; it wasn't written by Christopher Tolkien). That the Orcs were bred from the Atani is highly unlikely because they faught in the first two of the Battles of Beleriand before the coming of the Sun, while men lay asleep until the Sun's first rising. Tolkien never actually states that the Orcs are mutilated Avari; he simply passes along Elvish rumor and hearsay.
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