: : "Black does not, never has and never will represent evil in
: : LotR"

: Same thing. Your theory has been debunked, Frode. Let it go.

Not the same thing. I think you cannot quite make up your mind about this Michael. Let me give you two quotes that YOU have offered during our debate:

"black does not, never has and never will represent evil in LotR".

"but I'm not arguing that black is never used to symbolise evil in LotR. of course it is"

:) Which is it? You say my theory has been debunked.....It certainly has not.

'My theory' happens to be a quite common notion among readers of LotR. I wouldn't say the majority is always right (that's not the case always ), but in this case it should give you reason to consider if Tolkien gave the majority of his readers such thoughts by accident.

Anyway I've gone through some of the passages with Saruman and let me direct your attention to when Gandalf and Theoden pass by the white hand symbol. See how Tolkien makes us carefully aware of how the white has vanished in a smear. It is no longer white. Saruman is fallen. Do you think Tolkien tells us this without having a thought behind it? Further in the debate between Saruman and Gandalf the latter tells Saruman how white light broken is no longer white i.e. Saruman has lost his moral purity.