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Re: Olorin-Gandalf | White Council Forum Archive - msg 5249

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Topic: Re: Olorin-Gandalf    Reply to: msg 5224
Posted: September 22, 1999 at 00:21:53: by Fangorn
: : The age thing. It's seems to me that the immortals, those made of the stuff of Arda, Valar, Maia and Elves, have appearances directly related to their personality, their spirit. As creatures of the Unseen world, how they appear is an expression of some archetypal form. So the Istari appear as old men because that's the sort of spirit chosen for the mission. I think the idea works for elves as well, Elrond appears older than Galadriel because he has the role of a stern councillor to Middle Earth, Galadriel, although chronologically much older, appears younger because she is playing a different role, re-creating the Valinor of her youth in Loth-Lorien.

: Well, kind of.

: I agree except for the the elf part. There might be something to it, but there is also another part to why Elrond and Galadriel look the way they do.

: First of all, I don't particularly remember that Elrond looked older than Galadriel. I do remember that he is described as having wisdom in his brow and strength in his hand. (And I sem to remember something about looking both young and old at the same time...)

: But in any case, the explanation is very straightforward; those elves who had once lived in the Blessed Realm retained their youth - at least outwardly - more than those who had not. Elrond had never lived in the West, and neither had Celeborn (my explanation for his silver hair... but I know there are other theories) or Cirdan. Galadriel and Glorfindel had; hence their youthful appearance even though both were much old than Elrond.

: But as for the point about how the Valar looked; in general it seems right. But also remember that the Valar could and did take many forms. We can assume most Maiar kept this ability too (it seems that only the enemies loose this power).

: So in general, I would say the old man thing for the Istari was a general form designated by the Valar for their mission. But each of their idiosyncracies were probably chosen by each individually - like Gandalf's bushy eyebrows and long, severe nose (not a pretty picture - he must have been very sure of his ability to persuade people to shoose such details! ;) ). And the detail about how Saruman had flecks of black still in his beard and moustache is something I've always found intriguing; I don't necessarily know what to make of it, but it's still intriguing.

Maybe the flecks of black symbolize EVIL...haha...just kidding.

: Dave C-Q




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