Posted: September 25, 1999 at 14:19:32: by neithan
: : Can they actually die? are they too much part of the music and will reshape in a matter of years? where do they go if they die? does this mean that beings such as Gorthmog, the Valarauko of the pass at Gondolin, and the one in Moria as well as Saruman will again walk the earth? (they were the rebellous ones- those keeping to the Theme would presumably be reshaped in Valinor). I exclude Sauron as he had so much of his essence tied in the Ring that he presumably perished with it, but how are we to understand the particulars of his ...fading?... (it seems a better word from the description in the book)? and would he even need a ring if his essence was tied in with Eä in the song and he would reform?
: : Have fun...
: : NT: No, the Ainur could not die in a manner that they would no longer exist. Even Sauron still existed in some form after the destruction of the ring, as Gandalf the White said it "...becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take shape." And I think we should take Gandalf's word on this. : Cheers : Padster
: PS Gothmog was killed by Ecthelion *in* Gondolin. He was no the Balrog that Glorfindel killed in the *pass* of Gondolin. I know that- note the ","- I guess I should have said "or" instead?? I even answered someone elses quwry as to the slayer of Gorthmog awhiole ago and stated (this is the point- no pun) that I found, and find, it highly unlikely that Gorthmog was indeed killed with a Prussian spiked helmet as described in the book. Balrogs in the L.T. seem much less powerful, though more numerous, then later.
My point that I wanted to debate was death (or whatever other applicable name you, with English as your native tongue, can think of "fading"? "Expiration"? "Banishing"?) of the Ainur though, do you think that a Maia who had not invested so much spiritual power in material creations could grow again and take shape (much like Morgoth will reeneter the world)?
:-) NT
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