White Council

Re: Middle-earth is not medieval? | White Council Forum Archive - msg 5391

White Council Forum Archive
Original Xenite.Org White Council Forum Archive

Site Map


All Archives Top White Council Archive Index Archive 26 Index


VISIT LIVE TOLKIEN FORUM
Topic: Re: Middle-earth is not medieval?    Reply to: msg 5387
Posted: September 26, 1999 at 05:46:44: by neithan
: : The strongest argument for Middle-earth not being medieval is
: : that it is a sub-creation from Tolkien's own mind which draws
: : from numerous sources and cannot be simple defined as medieval
: : or anything else corresponding to human history.

: Nonetheless I am sometimes tempted to invite Martin Read and other medievalists to help put together a FAQ identifying the elements in Middle-earth which can be attributed (or reasonably attributed, if not authoritatively so) to Tolkien's knowledge of the Middle Ages.

: Most of what is argued over in the Medievalism debates would have to be excluded. The armor and weapons, for instance, are not medieval because they go back many centuries before the medieval period. Of course, we'd have to agree on what we mean by "Middle Ages". I think Martin has stated that he feels the true Medieval period began in the 3rd or 4th century AD, but this is an exceptional (though not entirely unique) opinion. I usually say it applies to the period 500 AD through 1500 AD, but I know from the difficulty we had in defining the charter for soc.history.ancient that this is a purely arbitrary definition is by no means used by a majority of medievalists (we had to define a terminating boundary for the group's charter).

: Something that I think could be included would be, for instance, the manner in which Celeborn and Galadriel greeted their guests. I don't know of similar customs from ancient sources, although Homer would probably need to be studied. There are far more classical authors than Homer available, but Greek politics and government started getting more sophisticated within a couple of centuries after his death.

: The custom concerning the Lembas may be identifiably Medieval. Christopher Tolkien, at least, associates one of the Elven names with an Anglo-Saxon term ("bread giver") which eventually became the word "lord".

: Earendil's star is another Medievalism.

: The Rohirrim's stirrups are Medieval, but very little else of their culture comes from so late a period. Their arms and armor bear strong resemblances to the Roman Cibinarii and a few earlier mail-clad lancer types. Their culture in some ways resemble that of the Goths, although some people argue the Goths have been misrepresnted or misreconstructed.

No, not some people- modern historians. However, the Rohir are very similar to the perception held in Tolkien's time of the Goths (and I am willing to discuss the nature of the Gothic culture/people with anyone).
NT
: Theoden's burial strongly resembles a wagon-burial and similar ancient customs of the prehistoric Germans and Celts (whose burial mounds in some places predate the Roman empire).

: The Shire is based largely on rural England of the modern Age (different people give different centuries). And so on. Most of the well-documented aspects of Middle-earth are easily shown not to be modelled on anything from Medieval Europe.




Contact us | SF Fandom | Privacy Statement


SF Fandom Sites

SciFi Forums
Archives
Forum Short Addresses
Other SciFi Sites

Xenite.Org Network

Science Fiction & Fantasy
SF Fandom
SF Worlds
The Queen of Swords
Tolkien Studies

Popular Network Sites

Entertainment Search Engine
Grace Park
Harry Potter News
History of Xena
Lord of the Rings News
Mizuo Peck
Poster Store
SciFi Search Engine
Star Wars News
White Cheese Dip
Witch World Page
Xena: Warrior Princess
 

This page is copyright © 1997-2007 by Michael L. Martinez. All rights reserved.
No portions of this page may be reproduced electronically or otherwise without express permission from the copyright holder, except as occurs in normal browser caching and page indexing.

No random scifi pages were incorporated into this archive. However, the truth about Balrogs may have been mentioned at least once. Learn more about Balrog of Moria. Read more Tolkien Essays.

Created by SEO Specialist Michael Martinez. Search engine optimization and search engine optimization provided by SE cOnsulting.