White Council

Re: Middle-earth is not medieval? | White Council Forum Archive - msg 5407

White Council Forum Archive
Original Xenite.Org White Council Forum Archive

Site Map


All Archives Top White Council Archive Index Archive 27 Index


VISIT LIVE TOLKIEN FORUM
Topic: Re: Middle-earth is not medieval?    Reply to: msg 5371
Posted: September 27, 1999 at 14:45:05: by Dave C-Q
: Please explain, Michael.

I think the below arguments do a nice job.

But one thing that has been forgotten is: what exactly does medieval mean?

If we take the broad definition of medieval that Michael gives below, then Medieval Europe would have comprised everything from Anglo-Saxon Britain, to Moorish Spain, to the Byzantine Empire (in both it's glory under Justinian, and its defeat by the Ottomans), Russia (from its early days as a Kievian principality to the growing Tsarist empire), France (under the Merovingians and the Capetians), and Germany under Charlemange (and into the Reformation), back to a Spain ruled by a pair of xenophobic Christians on the verge of conquering an entire hemisphere, and finally all the way back to England under Henry VII.

And if we include Spain, do we include North Africa and the Middle-east under the great Islamic empire (which was much more technologically advanced than Europe at the time), stretching from Morocco to India? Do we include India?

Many accept that Japanese society was fuedal, but was it *medieval*? How about imperial China? Or the empires of South and Central America?

All these existed in the period between 500 and 1500 AD, but do they really have any similarities? Or, conversely, is there anything that really distinguishes them?

In general, *medieval* is a term that is good for litttle more than passing description.

*Fuedal* on the other hand is something more concrete. Historians generally tend to define fuedalism as much more specific, in terms of a society at a period of development which is dependent on a lord-vassal system of rights and responsibilities in which a system of semislavery (serfdom) exists. In this sense, we can distinguish between Europe and Imperial China during the same period, between Japan (which was fuedal) and India (which was not).

Does Middle-earth, or more accurately, any of the nations in Middle-earth , fit this definition?

The Shire clearly doesn't. The Thain and the Master of Buckland are really only patriarchs of families, little more than figureheads to the rest of the country. The Mayor of Hobbiton - probably derived from the office of Lord Mayor of London - is explicitly stated to be a figurehead. There is very little in the way of formalized power.

Gondor. This is a hearder question because we seem to get quite a lot about the details (succession, internal politics, expansion), but it is all of a vague nature. Sometimes it seems fuedal, but do we really want to assume that the farmers and fisherfolk of the outlying lands were the serfs of the Kings and Stewards (and therefore Aragorn), compelled to devote a significant amount of uncompensated labor to the service of the crown. Is Gondor a nation of slaves? If so, why all the references to living in slavery under Sauron? If so, is living under the winged crown of Gondor any better than under the iron heel of Sauron?

I am prepared to say that many aspects of fuedalism crept into life in Gondor. Particularly in the later days under Denethor.

Just things to think about.

Gotta go.

Dave C-Q



Contact us | SF Fandom | Privacy Statement


SF Fandom Sites

SciFi Forums
Archives
Forum Short Addresses
Other SciFi Sites

Xenite.Org Network

Science Fiction & Fantasy
SF Fandom
SF Worlds
The Queen of Swords
Tolkien Studies

Popular Network Sites

Entertainment Search Engine
Grace Park
Harry Potter News
History of Xena
Lord of the Rings News
Mizuo Peck
Poster Store
SciFi Search Engine
Star Wars News
White Cheese Dip
Witch World Page
Xena: Warrior Princess
 

This page is copyright © 1997-2007 by Michael L. Martinez. All rights reserved.
No portions of this page may be reproduced electronically or otherwise without express permission from the copyright holder, except as occurs in normal browser caching and page indexing.

No random scifi pages were incorporated into this archive. However, the truth about Balrogs may have been mentioned at least once. Learn more about Balrog of Moria. Read more Tolkien Essays.

Created by SEO Specialist Michael Martinez. Search engine optimization and search engine optimization provided by SE cOnsulting.