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Topic: Re: magic, the supernatural, religion and Tolkien    Reply to: msg 5779
Posted: October 18, 1999 at 07:05:28: by shadowfax

This discussion is getting more and more interesting as it goes along. I am so happy I found this board.

: I would suppose the answer to this question would get to the root of an individual's philosophy of life. I sense a oneness of the universe. I don't usually experience it that way -- I experience life as a myriad of differentiations within the oneness. But my intuition tells me that somehow behind what Lao Tze calles the "10 thousand things" is a single essense. It might seem hypocritical of me then to say things such as "myths are not historical facts but they are true" as though there were different forms of true, and there are times I get discouraged because the closer we come to fact the further we move from meaning, and vice versa -- a kind of quantum mechanics of truth. But such is the nature of form. You look at a paper from above, and it is a rectangle. Look at it from the side and it is a line. Is a paper a rectangle or a line? It is a paper. In the end, there is only ONE truth, however many perspectives we try to view it from.

The "one-ness of religions" idea is a pleasing one.
Everyone is ultimately judged by what they do, not in whose name they do it. There's a very provocative passage to this effect in C.S.Lewis' The Last Battle, when one of the Calormen comes before Aslan expecting to be punished for worshipping Tash, God of the Calormen and Antichrist in Aslan's eyes, but no, Aslan tells him, all good he did in Tash's name he did in Aslan's name, and all eveil he did in Aslan's name he really did in Tash's name.

: : I myself an an engineer with a Catholic background, so I like to see things rationally within the borders defined by Christianity, Ethics and Aesthetics. This does not mean that I scorn all other forms and suggestions of the supernatural. I grew up in Berkshire, UK, within the aura of the White Horse and other prehistoric monuments, and must admit these have always had a fascination and attraction for me.

: Pardon my American ignorance. What is the White Horse?

The White Horse is the outline of a huge running horse (over 100 yards from head to tail) cut into the side of a hill. It was made in prehistoric times by removing the turf so exposing the white chalkstone below. The likeness to a real horse is striking. There are several such horses in the Berkshire/Wiltshire area, and there are also similar works in other parts of the UK. The White Horse I am thinking of is located on the Ridgeway (an ancient road, now in use as a nature trail) to the west of Didcot. Judging by the vast effort necessary to create such works of art with the primitive implements of the time, the achievement is stupendous.

This symbol of the running white horse on a green background may well have been Tolkien's inspiration for Rohan's banner.

: : What I like about the religious side of Tolkien's mythology, is that it reconciles Pagan (polytheistic) with Christian (monotheistic) views of the universe. I have always felt both have a validity of their own.

: I'll keep this brief, because I know you're fishing for answers further from home. I was raised hard core fundamentalist, in a strict and practicle home which had little use for silly metaphorical abstractions. I became immersed in Tolkein at roughly the same time that my choir practices introduced me to renaisssanse church music and thereby to my first serious mystical experiences. My family had always taught me that Catholics were pagans that worshiped statues and made sacrifices during communion, so when I attended my first Mass at age 16, I was duly TERRRIFIED. :-) But I became increasingly discontent with the protestant assertion that communion was mere symbol, when I experience symbols and metaphor as anything but "mere." I was enamored of the poetic beauty of liturgy, and though I was trained that ritual was empty, I began arguing that it was empty or full depending on what one chose to see. Despite my ingrained fear of Catholicism, the writing was on the wall. Between O Magnum Mysterium and Middle Earth, I knew where I didn't belong, as well as where I did belong, and converted to Catholicism at age 26.

: I don't have a clue how to explain how Middle Earth is essentially a Catholic world view. I'm an inductive reasoner: it's something I sense, but it would take me a long time to figure out on a conscious level what my subconscious sees as obvious. But irrational that may sound, I am sure that I am correct in my assertion. It's not in the facts, since obviously Middle Earth is not historically factual. It's at a deeper level... Wasn't it CS Lewis who said that if one wishes to remain an atheist, one would do well to avoid good books?

Reading helps us see other peoples views, and so cross-pollinate our own innate ideas. Tolkien once said (I don't know the place, sorry), that all mythology is in itself correct. God reveals himself to the minds of primitive societies using the symbols they know, which may give an incomplete, yet not incorrect picture. I believe this revelation is sustained in modern times with modern people. Reading may give you the tools to articulate your thoughts by helping you recognise your own revelation. (maybe I'm going too far here)




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