Posted: November 19, 1999 at 19:58:14: by Glorifindel
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: : : : I'm not saying my intertpretations are based on anything more than inference. However, in the context of Tolkien's use of the word war, I cannot find any parallel use referring to a series of small skirmishes. Which is why the word struck me so forcibly in the text. The War of the Dwarves and Orcs, fought on the other side of the mountains, was a sizeable conflict. I am not claiming that the war in Eriador was as large-scale as that, but it seems to me that the Dunedain may have fielded forces numbering in the many hundreds (given their martial superiority over orcs this may have been sufficient to counter raids consisting of several thousand orcs). This would tend to counteract the impression given by Halbarad's force of 30 horsemen that Dunedain numbers were tiny. After all Halbarad's force was essentially only a token squad hastily collected , and mostly acting as an an escort for Aragorn's royal standard.: : : Considering that the Dunedain of the North are from two kingdoms ( Cardolin and Arthedain, with a few fugitives of rhudaur) and we are led to believe that these were sizeable kingdoms, (the ruins of the two main cities of the North are still present on the map, suggesting sizeable settlements)it is unlikely that the Dunedain were a few people,as they are able to protect the whole of the wilderness as much as they do. The problem with this is that we are told by Butterbur that the rangers have all gone away, which is why Bree is in so much trouble. If this just applies to the 30 or so with Halbarad then the Dunedain are so few that with inbreeding they would have been wiped out, or at least have six fingers each. Therefore, the role of these missing Rangers has not been told ( I don't think so? Perhaps it has and I have missed it!) but it is reasonable to assume that there is several thousand at the least of the Dunedain were alive at the time. : : I agree with you in principle, but I don't agree with some of the details: : : 1) Science in ME seems to follow somewhat other rules than it does today (magic etc.), so the problem of inbreeding may not necessarily have been present : Certainly, though in general the physical laws of ME are similar to ours, ie Newtonian apples fall. : : 2) The dunedain were very long lived due to their elven blood. The total number of generations of rangers was not that stupendous, so inbreeding was not yet a serious problem : Interesting point. : : 3) If there was a large population 'in hiding' somewhere, then there must have been a substantial area of farmland to support them, as they could not all have lived off Elrond's alma. There is no evidence of this, and even if Tolkien just neglected to tell us about it, a settled living would have generated more respect from the Breelanders. : Tolkien's interest in the economics and sociology of his created world was fairly limited, so his relative silence on the home life of the Dunedain is not really exceptional. Plus the Breelanders would only have had dealings with the Rangers, not with the home Dunedain communities. : : I think that part of the Dunedain of the north must have lived in exile with other peoples, but not necessarily mixing with them, and supported the rangers from safe havens by sending them money and food. The rangers could be more effective in their tasks having no homesteads to protect. : If their homsteads were located in The Evendim Hills then, as threats came overwhelmingly from the east and northeast, any efforts by the Dunedain to protect the Shire and Breeland would be effectively also protecting their own homes.
: There is nothing written to lead us to believe that the old realm of Arthedain was completely deserted; as was mentioned, it is quite possible that the Dunedain had large settlements in the Evendim Hills and in the area around Lake Evendim. The Great Plague and war with Angmar probably would not have destroyed the entire population, as many hundreds, if not thousands, could have fled west, or taken refuge in Imladris, or had been held in slavery in Fornost by Angmar and were then liberated during the final battle in which Angmar was defeated. And if the line of the Kings of Arnor had been sustained for more than a thousand years, there must have been a larger population than is suggested in the Lord of the Rings.
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