Re: Gunpowder in ME | White Council Forum Archive - msg 6721

White Council: The Tolkien Forum archive_33 on this day of

Re: Gunpowder in ME | White Council Forum Archive - msg 6721

White Council: The Tolkien Forum archive_33

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Topic: Re: Gunpowder in ME
Reply to: Message 6709
Posted: November 27, 1999 at 20:57:02: by Ecthelion
: : : Gandalf is known in the Shire for his wonderful fireworks. I
: : : believe it is also stated that of all the fireworks his
: : : (Gandalf's)were the best. This implies that others also made
: : : fireworks. Since fireworks use gunpower or flash powder, it
: : : appears that one or both existed in Middle Earth. Does
: : : gunpowder exist in Middle Earth? Are there other instances
: : : where the use of gunpowder may be implied or infered. Comments?

: : When the Orcs of the High Pass kidnapped Thorin and Company in THE HOBBIT Gandalf seems to have used gunpowder, and Saruman used a "blasting powder" to break through at one point in the battle of the Hornburg. Sauron's army from Minas Morgul also blasted breaches in the Rammas, the wall around the Pelennor fields, although Tolkien doesn't say how the blasts were effected.

: If gunpowder,or similar substance, did exist in ME, who invented it? My best choice would be the Dwarves. Perhaps it was created as a tool for use in mining or dwelling construction. It could also have played a key part in the waking of the Balrog in Moria.
: Dwarves as the inventors could also explain its lack of wide-spread usage. If it were used only in construction or for celebrations, using it as a weapon would not be considered. The Chinese and gunpowder is a good example of this. Since Dwarves did not readily share the secrets of their crafts, except for rare exceptions the knowledge would remain with the Dwarves. Since Gandalf had contacts with Dwarves, Thorin etc, this could explain his knowledge. Sauron,or his servants, could have aquired the knowlege from Dwarves ensnared by the Rings. Saruman could have discovered the secret through his studies of lore, or from one of Sauron's servants.

:::I think the dwarf theory is quite valid. Because where are the ingredients for gunpowder found? In the earth, which is the dwarves specialty. And in what has been an important part of mining from the 1800's on? Dynamite, and gunpowder can make an effect similar to dynamite (I highly doubt that dwarves discovered dynamite, however), and so I think the dwarves of Khazadum may have used gunpowder in mining.

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