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Topic: Re: Eldar Reincarnation    Reply to: msg 6934
Posted: December 06, 1999 at 20:09:13: by Michael Martinez
: : My personal understanding of Tolkien's world was that Elves,
: : while BOUND to the world until the end of time, could not
: : actually return from the halls of Mandos to the mortal world
: : before the end, Luthien & Beren being the exceptions because
: : Luthien was a fab singer and made Mandros go all weepy.

: : Come on... there must be some opinions out there.

:
: I have seen this been discussed before... And it is supposedly
: stated in one of the HOME-books that the Glorfindel of the Lord
: of the Rings was indeed the same as Glorfindel, Captain of
: Gondolin. I was puzzled with this at first, as I never heard of
: any elf returning from Aman after the Noldor left (with the
: exception of those fighting in the War of Wrath), and certainly
: not one who had indeed "died".

Two of the books contain this information. The first, THE RETURN OF THE SHADOW, contains a brief explanation by Christopher which makes reference to the essay eventually published in THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH.

Some people feel that Tolkien made a mistake in using the name of Glorfindel for THE LORD OF THE RINGS, but this belief seems to be founded on the mistaken notion that Tolkien would never reuse an Elvish name. He in fact reused several names (even among the sons of Feanor). LOTR's Glorfindel was originally conceived as a descendant of the Glorfindel of Gondolin, but Tolkien dropped this idea before he finished writing THE LORD OF THE RINGS.

Sometime afterward he decided that the name "Glorfindel" would probably not be credibly used again among the Eldar: "This repetition of so striking a name, though possible, would not be credible. No other major character in the Elvish legends as reported in THE SILMARILLION or THE LORD OF THE RINGS has a name borne by another Elvish person of importance." By implication, the twin sons of Feanor are not that important.

Tolkien wrote two essays about Glorfindel sometime around 1970, and they are both published in POME (as "Glorfindel I" and "Glorfindel II"). The second essay was intended to supersede the earlier one, and hence is more "canonical" than the first. The decision about the name is given in the second essay.

: One thing that *is* certain though, is that elves do indeed
: return from the Halls of Mandos after a longer of shorter
: period of time (only with the exception of Fëanor and maybe a
: few more who stay there till the end of the world; there has
: been a discussion about this too). As it says in the
: Silmarillion after Finrod Felagund dies, "but Felagund walks
: beneath the trees in Eldamar with Finarfin his father" (or
: something to that extent). It is also, as mentioned above,
: stated specifically that Fëanor will be in the Halls of Mandos
: forever, and thus it is easy to conclude from that that his
: fate was more or less unique.

Well, what THE SILMARILLION says is that Feanor has not yet been released from Mandos.

: I would like to have a question answered too, if anyone knows
: anything more about Glorfindel; why did just he come back? And,
: is he Sindarin or Noldorin? It makes more sense that he would
: come back if he was Sindar; but then, shouldn't more have come,
: perhaps Beleg and all the other Sindar elves who were much more
: tied to Middle-Earth than to the Undying Lands? Why was
: Glorfindel so unique in that respect?

Tolkien decided that Glorfindel could not be of part Sindarin descent because THE LORD OF THE RINGS says he was one of the lords of the Eldar from beyond the Seas. Of course, he didn't take into consideration that a re-embodied Glorfindel, regardless of his parentage, would qualify as one of those lords. That he was of at least partly Noldorin heritage is implied by his words to Aragorn and the Hobbits about some of his kin (Gildor's people) sending word to Rivendell. Gildor and his folk were High Elves (Noldor).

Tolkien also surmises that Glorfindel left Valinor because of kinship with Turgon. He doesn't explain the nature of the kinship, but either Glorfindel is a relative through some sibling or cousin of Finwe (entirely possible), or else he is a relative by marriage, being akin to Turgon's wife Elenwe, who was of the Vanyar. Such a relationship would of course conform with the speculations that Glorfindel himself was partly Vanyarin in descent, since the Noldor were not normally golden-haired.

Tolkien concluded that Glorfindel probably returned to Middle-earth before the destruction of Numenor, as afterward Iluvatar had decreed that no Elves should be able to return to Middle-earth from Aman and such an exception in Glorfindel's case would make him seem too powerful and important. Hence, he probably returned around the time of the War of the Elves and Sauron to help Gil-galad and Elrond. Tolkien feels that by 1600 Sauron, having been unmasked, was perceived as a great threat by Elves, Men, and Dwarves, and that urgent prayers and messages would then be sent to Valinor and Numenor.

It may be of interest to followers of the Glorfindel debate that Tolkien decided Galdor of Gondolin need not be Galdor of the Havens (in "The Council of Elrond"), and Christopher strongly suggests the latter appears to be a Sindarin Elf far inferior to the former, who would have acquired much wisdom through the ages if he were still in Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age.
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