Black Numenoreans Revisited | White Council Forum Archive - msg 7421
White Council: The Tolkien Forum Archive 37
| All Archives | Top White Council Archive Index | Archive 37 Index |
| Topic: Black Numenoreans Revisited Reply to: |
|
Posted: December 27, 1999 at 22:15:42: by Michael Martinez
In Reply to: Re: More Nazgul/Mouth of Souron Questions (was Re: Where did the Nazgul come from?) posted by Michael Martinez on December 17, 1999 at 21:41:57: : I won't say anything on the Mouth of Sauron question because I don't : think we know enough. On Black Numenoreans though there is some : information. : : 1) The text says he was a Black Numenorean. That name only : : occurred in the Third Age. In the Second Age the ancestors : : of the Black Numenoreans were called the Kings Men. : : The Mouth of Sauron passage itself says "But it is told that he was a : renegade, who came of the race of those that are named the Black : Numenoreans; for they established their dwellings in Middle-earth during : the years of Sauron's domination." : : The years of Sauron's domination were the Second Age, and this passage : says that is when the Black Numenoreans established their dwellings in : Middle-earth. So the Black Numenoreans he is talking about being related : to the Mouth were definitely Second Age people whether they were called : Black Numenoreans at the time or not. Also, Numenore fell 122 years : before the end of the Second Age. In all that time there was no King for : the King's Men to be the men of. I'd think that this was probably : when the name changed, once the King himself was gone. It is also : possible that Black Numenoreans is what Middle-earth people called them : as opposed to their own name for themselves. They would not have called themselves Black Numenoreans in the Second Age, and though the King's Men are essentially the same people as the Black Numenoreans, they were still KING'S MEN in the last 122 years of the Second Age. Why? For the same reason Elendil and his people were still the FAITHFUL in those years. They WERE alive during the days of the last king (Meneldil was the last man born in Numenor). They did not think of themselves as Men of Middle-earth, but as Numenoreans, and the King's Men didn't seem to feel they were the outcasts. In "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" Tolkien doesn't speak of Black Numenoreans, but of renegades (formerly of the King's Men), loyal to Sauron and unfriendly to the Elves. The transition from King's Men to Black Numenoreans had not occured. Arnor and Gondor were founded by Numenoreans, not Arnorians and Gondorians. In the same way, the Black Numenorean realms were founded by Numenoreans but not by Black Numenoreans. The term "Black Numenorean" belongs to the Third Age. The people belong to both the Second and Third Ages, but the Mouth of Sauron cannot be a Second Age Black Numenorean because there were none. They were simply renegade Numenoreans who established realms on the coasts of Middle-earth. Tolkien's note in Appendix A to THE LORD OF THE RINGS makes it clear when the term "Black Numenoreans" came into use: The great cape and land-locked firth of Umbar had been Numenorean land since days of old; but it was a stronghold of the King's Men, who were afterwards called the Black Numenoreans, corrupted by Sauron, and who hated above all the followers of Elendil. After the fall of Sauron their race swiftly dwindled or became merged with the Men of Middle-earth, but they inherited without lessening their hatred of Gondor. Umbar, therefore, was taken only at great cost. (The note refers to conquest of Umbar by Earnil I in TA 933.) When does the "afterwards" apply? It applies after the days of Elendil, for the sentence speaks of the King's Men. The clause about their being called is parenthetical. Hence, we can dispense with it to determine what the sentence's main point is: ...but it was a stronghold of the King's Men...corrupted by Sauron, and who hated above all the followers of Elendil.... Elendil and his followers were the Elf-friends, the Faithful, contemporary with the King's Men. They all thought of themselves as Numenoreans, but to Elendil and his people the King's Men were now simply renegades, bereft of both king and country. Elendil was the lawful heir of Elros Tar-Minyatur. Whether we call them King's Men, renegade Numenoreans, or Black Numenoreans, they were the same people. But they were not called Black Numnenoreans until the Third Age. The earlist reference I have for it is in the story of Tarannon Falastur (reigned 830-913) and Beruthiel, whom Tolkien decided was a Black Numenorean princess. Their marriage produced no children, and it was Tarannon's nephew Earnil who conquered Umbar. Some people have speculated that Beruthiel may have been a princess from Umbar, althoughs she certainly could have come from other lands. The last reference to her is the mention of her ship sailing past Umbar. Either she was going home, or she was too ashamed to return to Umbar, and so sought her fortune (or death) in the lands further south. It is improper to speak of Black Numenoreans in the Second Age because there were none. But there were indeed people from whom the Black Numenoreans came. ------------------ Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy |
Replies To This Message
- December 28, 1999 at 08:42:02: by Frode
- December 28, 1999 at 19:06:13: by Erestor
- January 04, 19100 at 18:21:26: by Osric
Other Xenite Sites
- Science Fiction & Fantasy
- SciFi Fandom
- Science Fiction Worlds
- Tolkien Studies
- Michael Martinez
- The Queen of Swords
- SF Fandom Wordpress Blog
- SF Fandom Blogger Blog
- SEO Services
- SF Fandom Links
- Contact Us