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Topic: Re: Gondorian Cavalry    Reply to: msg 7814
Posted: January 14, 2000 at 08:59:06: by Martin Read
: : : The bulk, if not all, of Gondor's cavalry in this battle
: : : consisted of horsemen from the Vales of Anduin (almost
: : : certainly men of the Eotheod).

: : Some of these, or related folk, are recorded as settling in
: : Gondor and eventually becoming assimilated, their mounted
: : prowess would undoubtably have been made use of by the
: : Gondorians...

: The Northmen who settled in Gondor predated the Eotheod by centuries. The Eotheod were descended from the surviving cavalry of the army of the Kingdom of Rhovanion. Tolkien doesn't say the army included infantry, but he seems to imply that the bulk of the army (which was destroyed by the Wainriders) was not mounted.

I've looked at the particular passage in the Appendices, and it runs like this:

"Most of all the horses were praised, for many of them came from the Vales of Anduin, and with them were riders tall and fair, and proud princes of Rhovanion."

Well this says that many of the mounts of the cavalry were from the Vale of Anduin, it says nothing of the ethnicity of the riders, also it implies that some of the horses were not from this area. Gondor may merely have purchased mounts from the area, the Nazgul rode Rohanish horses for example. The following part of the sentence implies that the horses were accompanied by some Rhovanion cavalrymen (though fair might just mean fair of face and not hair). The use of the phrase "... and proud princes of Rhovanion" rather than "... led by proud princes", suggests that this was far from being a wholly Northman cavalry army.

Another point, the Gondorian army arrived by sea via a long voyage. This suggests that the Gondorian naval forces were equipped with specialised horse-transports, which then in turn suggests that Gondor's army normally had a moderately large cavalry arm.

: :...Earnur was certainly mounted when he was cowed by
: : The Witch King, this is suggestive that the upper classes, if
: : not others as well, of Gondor had some skill in mounted combat,
: : though they were not from a purely horse-based society like
: : Rohan...

: It suggests that the officers of the army, not necessarily derived solely from the upper classes, would have been mounted.

Earnil was personally leading the cavalry into battle, if this force was a largely allied corps, why was he not personally leading the native infantry of the main body? A leader from a foot-slogging nation would be a positive menace in charge of a large, wholly cavalry force. If the Gondorians were so little versed in mounted warfare Earnil would have been much better advised to leave the cavalry leadership to one of the Rhovanion princes.

Later in the same section of the Appendices it says: ".. before he (The Witch King) could seek the shelter of Carn Dum the cavalry of Gondor overtook him with Earnil riding at their head." It is notable that Tolkien uses the term cavalry of Gondor, not the allied cavalry or the cavalry attached to the Gondorian army.

Later again Earnur is described as going to meet his doom at Minas Morgul with the passage "... he rode with a small escort of knights." This shows that the kings of Gondor had a similar body of troops as the Swan Knights who were attached to the person of the Prince of Dol Amroth. This is conclusive proof that the folk of Belfalas were not unique within Gondor in having a mounted component to their armed forces.

: :... The Rangers of the North were mounted, and the fact
: : that they took the trouble to bring Aragorn's own horse from
: : the far north suggests that the steeds they rode were trained
: : war-horses (if they were merely riding horses then why go to
: : the trouble of bringing a specific one all that way?). This
: : suggests that mounted combat was an accomplishment of Dunadan
: : nobility in general.

: There is no way to connect the Rangers' use of horses with any traditions in Gondor. The Rangers had to cover a lot of territory. Gondor had a standing army to maintain its borders and keep bad things outside from getting in. Whether it also relied upon local forces in that operation doesn't reflect on the fact that the Rangers had to be a different kind of force from what Gondor had. Faramir's rangers in Ithilien, serving in a similar capacity but over a much smaller area, were not mounted.

Both the Rangers and the elite of Gondor were of Dunedain extraction and may have shared in a common inheritance of mounted soldiering. It isn't conclusive but it is part of the general evidence for Dunedain equestrianism.

: :...Also, as a general point, if the Gondorians realised that a
: : mounted element in an army was desirable (as is shown by their
: : recruitment of the Eothed) then one imagines that they would
: : make some efforts to raise at least a modest native cavalry
: : contingent.

: It's debatable whether Gondor would have sent its own cavalry north, given that Earnil was so unsure of his ability to send any aid at all for many years. He sent an expeditionary force, not the greater part of Gondor's army. The Eotheod may have proved more useful working alone than incorporated into Gondor's native cavalry.

: : : I think 300 is too high for the knights, and the men-at-arms
: : : are never said to ride into battle.

: : The bulk of the cavalry led by Imrahil at the battle are not
: : described, they could have included his men-at-arms, and
: : possibly some of the Tower Guard (who as elite troops probably
: : had mounted capability).

: Or just a cavalry company or two stationed in Minas Tirith. There is no reason to give a high probability to Imrahil's leading a thousand horsemen to battle. Such a force should have been able to accomplish more than they did against the vanguard of the Witch-king's army.

There were enough of them to rout the vanguard at least temporarily, and the enemy was being constantly reinforced, whereas it is explicitly stated that all the horsemen in the city had been commited to the counter attack. I would say that 1,000 cavalrymen would be around the minimum figure I would estimate as capable of this exploit. The army retreating from the causeway forts had itself a small cavalry rear-guard. This tends to support the view that any considerable body of Gondorian troops would normally be given a mounted element, as cavalry are not suited to the defence of static fortifications.

: : : Tut, tut! Tolkien was a linguistic scholar. He never called
: : : himself a medieval scholar. Someone recently contacted Tom
: : : Shippey and asked him what he thought of the idea of Tolkien
: : : as a medieval scholar. Shippey's answer (I'm summarizing) was
: : : that, if pressed, Tolkien might have conceded to being a
: : : medievalist, but not in the sense most people use the word
: : : today. But Shippey was quick to point out that Tolkien
: : : thought of himself as a philologist, and often said so.

: : He was a scholar specialising in a language which was first
: : written down in around 650 AD and ceased to exist as such by
: : around 1200 AD. I think he was perforce well versed in the
: : Mediaeval era.

: He also studied Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Gothic, and other languages. Tolkien did not confine himself to Anglo-Saxon.

But at various times he was a Professor of English or Professor of Anglo-Saxon, which shows his special interest and expertise.

: : : That is really a small nit, but I don't think it's necessary
: : : to imply that Tolkien was a medievalist for this point,
: : : Martin. I don't know the etymology of "man-at-arms", but
: : : Tolkien's philological background would have acquainted him
: : : with it.

: : I think it is well acknowledged that Tolkien was careful in the
: : language that he put down on paper. By the time English began
: : to be used in written form again the Latin term miles (meaning
: : a fully equipped heavy cavalry man) and the French term gen
: : d'armes were translated as man-at-arms. I don't think Tolkien
: : would have been unaware of this meaning. It is at least
: : possible that Tolkien was using the term in this sense.
: : Nothing in the text is directly contrary to this at least. A
: : man might be perceived as tall even when mounted, particularly
: : if his feet trailed on the ground like Hrolf Ganger (Rollo) the
: : founder of Normandy!

: I'm not saying he would have been unaware of the meaning. In fact, dictionary.com gives essentially the same meaning as you, so it's supposed to still mean the same thing (although modern fantasy authors seem to be trying to change that). But the only possible indication of numbers of horsemen Tolkien gives for Minas Tirith is in "The Last Debate" where he writes that "another company of five hundred hundred horse there should be, among which would ride the sons of Elrond with the Dunedain and the knights of Dol Amroth".

This should be seen in the context that Gondor provided half of all the cavalry attached to the expeditionary army. The other half being provided by Rohan whose army was wholly cavalry (though some were unhorsed by this time).

: If Imrahil was the only guy in town to have horses, I'd say this was a strong argument in favor of your interpretation (in addition to the traditional meaning of the term "man-at-arms"). But Denethor had SOME horsemen of his own. This is established at least indirectly through references to the stables by the beacon towers in UNFINISHED TALES.

The provision of royal knights for Earnur suggests that the Stewards probably had similar forces at their disposal.
Interestingly in the charge of the Gondorian cavalry attempting to rescue Eomer's forces at the Battle of the Pelennor Field the leaders of this body are enumerated as, (in addition to Imrahil) Hurin the Tall, Warden of the Keys (which tends to confirm that the Tower Guards operated as cavalry in the field), the Lord of Lossarnach and Hirluin of Pinnath Gelin. Why the latter two were leading the cavalry and not leading their apparently all-infantry contingents is not clear. Perhaps they had small escorts of mounted men not mentioned in the earlier descriptions of their troops, or perhaps the charge of the Gondorian cavalry was deemed so imprtant to the fate of the battle that a number of senior, and probably charismatic, leaders was deemed necessary.

: But Tolkien used old words in new ways. He delighted in giving them new but familiar meaning. Who is to say he did not do this with "men-at-arms"?

I think the number of the references to Gondorian cavalry confirms the overall impression that mounted warfare, whilst not all pervading as in Rohan, was an important part of the Gondorian armed forces.





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