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Re: Gondorian Elite Troops | White Council Forum Archive - msg 8023

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Topic: Re: Gondorian Elite Troops    Reply to: msg 8019
Posted: January 18, 2000 at 04:12:02: by Martin Read
: : : This is a follow on, or add on, to the Gondorian Cavalry thread.

: Another note to a statement made in thread mentioned above. I mis-remember the exact statement but it was something about transplanted northmen cavalry in Gondor. From 'Cirion and Eorl'; this is about the messengers sent to the Eorl by Cirion: "He was Brondir, a great rider of a family that claimed descent from a captain of the Northmen in the service of the Kings of old."

: Also your suggestion about Imrahil's men at arms being cavalry is very intriguing. I had never thought of it that way before. I will have to go back and do some recalculations on the numbers given for the troops involved in the Battle of the Pelennor Feilds. I also think that 300 is not to large a # for the Swan Knights. I will post more when I get a chance to do those calculations.

: A question for those interested to consider; a knight among the Dunedain is called a ROQUEN which translated more or less literaly means 'horse person'; however do all knights have to be mounted warriors? (I will post my thoughts later It is getting late).

If Tolkien used the English word "Knight" as a direct translation of Roquen then there are certain indications in the text that it had a social meaning rather than a purely military one. The best indication is the poet's intro to the praise poem to Frodo at The Field of Cormallen, where he says something like "Noble lords, ladies and knights" - I paraphrase because I don't have the book with me. This does seem to suggest that the term knight was being used as a social rank. For example the phrase "Lords ladies and spearmen" would be a very odd one! I imagine that in Gondor knight had a dual meaning, a person of the gentry or nobility serving in the army as a very heavily armed horseman, and more generally a person of sufficient social rank that he would be able to serve as a military knight if he so chose. Not very different to the case in Late Mediaeval Europe.




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