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The Void and Hell (was Re: On Sauron's Fate) | White Council Forum Archive - msg 8270

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Topic: The Void and Hell (was Re: On Sauron's Fate)    Reply to: msg 8251
Posted: January 25, 2000 at 10:26:55: by Dave C-Q
: I'm assuming that the Void is not a place of virtual non-existance seeing as how Melkor took to searching for the Flame Imperishable there.

I had forgotten about that. Interesting.

:I see it as a dimension where no created thing exists which, in a sense, makes it nothingness. But I don't believe it means unconsciousness.

Neither do I.

:When trying to convince Maglor to steal the remaining Silmaril from Eonwe Maedhros stated that the "Oath" contained a punishment of bringing the Everlasting Darkness upon them if they did not fulfill their oath. Robert Foster equates this w/ the Void.

This is why I don't like encyclopedias about Tolkien. Their authors tend to make assumptions (which may or may not be valid) and pose them as fact.

:Perhaps the Void is where all evil beings end up?

Orcs end up in the Halls of Mandos. As far as Tolkien's texts go, the Void is reserved for Morgoth and Sauron.

:Also, doesn't it state somewhere that Melkor is to return for the Last Battle?

Well, Tolkien states that there will be a final battle--the Dagor Dagorath ("The Battle of Battles")--which will be the apocalyptic battle between good and evil. I think we can assume that Melkor will be involved somehow.

:I equate the Void w/ the Bible's Bottomless Pit. Just some ramblings of my own.

The Bible's bottomless Pit was however a physical place, which through the course of Christian history became what we know today as Hell, the prison for the souls of the damned. Tolkien has no place of torture for the wicked. But he does have a prison for them--Mandos. But then of course, both the good and the bad go there (for no one is perfect), and the bad just stay longer (up to and including forever). In fact, in an interesting twist in Tolkien's mythology, the only real "hell" (in the "place of torture and evil" sense of the word) is the prisons of the Dark Lords, which are not prisons and torture chambers for the wicked, but for the good.

Very interesting.

Cheers.

Dave C-Q



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