: : How well does logistics of Orks and Trolls work??

: I wasn't thinking of massed invasions, but of gradual incursions. Like the sort of colonization which occurred throughout the Misty Mountains.

: : : True. But then, keeping the perils far from these lands
: : : would require fewer Rangers on their borders.

: : Would it? The perils that had the logistics to get there would
: : be few (if more dangerous).

: I think you are responding to a misperception of my unclear intent. There should have been fewer evil creatures living within reach of Bree and the Shire because the Dunedain kept them far away. They were able to do so, presumably, by concentrating their population near the Misty Mountains, where the evil creatures were most likely to survive after the fall of Angmar (and I note that the Orcs didn't begin to spread again until several centuries later).

: : : We don't have any population numbers, but both Rivendell and
: : : Lindon fielded armies in the Third Age. Elrond usually if
: : : not always got help from Amroth, of course.

: : After the fall of Arthedain??? I can only recall one or two
: : instances before but after? What motivation would they have to
: : cross the Hithaeglir, at their peril, and go to war in an
: : almost empty Eriador? The Elves of Rivendell or Lindon on the
: : other hand had plenty of reason- such as defence of their
: : homes.

: Well, Elrond sent an army to the final battle with Angmar, which occurred a year after the fall of Arthedain. The only large departures of Elven folk we know of from that time forward were the flight of the Silvan Elves from Lorien in 1981 and the flight of the High Elves near the end of the Age.

: : : I tried to point out that Aragorn was not unfamiliar with the
: : : Trollshaws region. He stated he was not familiar with the
: : : Ettendales farther north. But the lands he is most closely
: : : associated with (according to Tolkien) are the lands south of
: : : Rivendell. That's a strong factor for accepting that he
: : : probably lived in the Angle (and, remember, it was largely
: : : because of this point that I shifted my thinking to the Angle
: : : just before David Salo produced that note from the archives
: : : at Marquette University).

: : As far as I know, Aragorn (or Estel) lived only in Imladris and
: : on the road/in the wilderniss, but I may be mistaken.

: Where he actually lived (and he left Rivendell when he was only 19) doesn't determine where he spent his time. "The Ring Goes South" says, for example, that he knew the lands south of Rivendell intimately. But it doesn't say he knew nothing of the Angle.
: : : Why should the Rangers be patrolling the road? I don't
: : : understand the thinking behind your question. But given what
: : : happened to the Rangers who were guarding Sarn Ford, I don't
: : : see that Glorfindel could have been helped by the Rangers.

: : Because numbers help, in a skirmish with something else than
: : Nazgûl Rangers could be of great assistance, and even in one
: : with those foul depredations- they did not much care for fire
: : as I recall. Glorfindel could possibly be the extra power the
: : ones at Sarn Ford could have used (I seem to remember it being
: : indicated that had their captain been there, they may have
: : resisted though probably not). The rangers could, of course,
: : not be patrolling the road expecting the Ringbearer (if they
: : would even know of him) and Glorfindel to turn up, but for the
: : simple reason of keeping the few wayfarers safe.

: Well, there is really no answering your question. We don't know what the Rangers were up to while Aragorn and the Hobbits made their way toward Rivendell.

: : : There were traces of Rangers at Weathertop. I think that's
: : : sufficient to show that there were Rangers wandering far from
: : : home. Eriador was a big land. It would take a lot of
: : : Rangers for them to cover it completely and be so common as
: : : to have Aragorn running into them all the time. And if they
: : : had those kinds of numbers, then why be a secret people at
: : : all? They should have been able to maintain their kingdom.

: : Never claimed that he should run into them all the time, just
: : that they would probably mount frequent patrols so near their
: : homelands instead of merely bimbling about in all of Eriador
: : and leaving their logistics base wide open to raids.

: I don't see that the Road had to be so close to their homelands. The Angle was a large land. Most of it could still have been deserted at the end of the Third Age.

: : : Also, keep in mind that there was rain on the journey after
: : : they crossed the Last Bridge (and it had rained there a
: : : couple of days previously). There could indeed have been
: : : Ranger traffic on the road in previous days and Aragorn would
: : : have no way of knowing it.

: : Never done much tracking have you? rain creates soft earth/mud.

: [snip]

: You missed my point. I'm saying the rain could have washed out the tracks left prior to the rain.

: : : I don't see how Tolkien's connection between Numenoreans and
: : : Egyptians seems like a later contrivance, but you may be
: : : correct in that his conclusion on where to put the Dunedain
: : : could have come after he wrote "At the Sign of the Prancing
: : : Pony".

: : I have stated my case of the Egyptian- Númenoran thing
: : elsewhere, and said in that thread that I believed it to have
: : been a spur-of-the-moment comment/answer/statement from the
: : author that was then later forced to try and bring harmony in
: : what he had written and stated...

: Yes, I know, but I don't agree.

: : ...I think this might have been the case here, and I am trying
: : to build an argument why it would be so, in contradiction to
: : Ronald's statement that, frankly, seems somewhat illogical to
: : me, as I said elsewhere. As I also said elsewhere, these are
: : mere halfformed and incoherent thoughts that i posted to get
: : them straight- a method I sometimes use as I consider this
: : board the only place to harvest good theories and either
: : disband or fine-tune my own.

: There is much more textual evidence for the Dunedain living in the Angle than there is for them to live anywhere else. I don't see any reason to believe Tolkien was making a mistake (as in merely making an ephemeral idea, such as assigning Fingon to be Gil-galad's father).

: Since Tolkien eventually decided to make Trotter the Ranger a man, and to make him a descendant of the exiles of Numenor, who made vast tombs filled with treasure for their dead kings, it is evident that the Numenorean tradition only gradually worked its way into THE LORD OF THE RINGS, but "The Fall of Numenor" predates LOTR and it appears that Tolkien was already associating the Numenoreans with the Egyptians when he wrote the earlier story.

The discussion is really petering out as we have very little to work with. Any idea as to why they would chose to live in The Angle from a strategic viewpoint? I will throw the "north flanking" argument that you snipped at you. unless we get a new approach to this I think it will be another nonconclusive argument.
On a final note, I also believe that the note concerning the Angle was made under the impression of a romantic notion that the Rangers should really live in the wilds, and the lands east of Mitheithel were the wildest in Eriador- without considering the implications for covering and logistics, but then again, they may have lived in the Angle, I am merely trying to find arguments for and against it so I can determine in my own mind where I would consider it advantageous for them to live, and to justify them living in The Angle.
NT