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Re: Novels and Mediaeval Literature | White Council Forum Archive - msg 8689

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Topic: Re: Novels and Mediaeval Literature    Reply to: msg 8648
Posted: February 04, 2000 at 18:04:12: by Goodgulf
: In a very basic sense The Lord of the Rings is firmly based in the world of Mediaeval thought. The novel is essentially a Mediaeval invention. The Classical World came up with most forms of literature, epic, comedy, satire, history etc etc but as far as a longish fictional story in prose (a novel) is concerned, we have to look for its genesis in Mediaeval Byzantium and the "Romances" of byzantine writers. A later flowering occurred in the west, probably under indirect byzantine influence, in such writing as the Catalan Tirant lo Blanc etc. So, at least in its form, LOTR owes all to Mediaevality.

Yes, but not many people debate medieval influences in John Grisham novels, and yet here we are arguing that very point. But I think you neatly sidestepped the whole issue. The history of the novel is not is question. The question is Does Middle-Earth resemble our stereotyped vision of medieval Europe? I think Tolkien tried to avoid that, but whenever a story has a king and elves and inns I think we tend to picture the middle ages. But kings and inns and other things we often associate with mediaval Europe have been around for many millenia. Illustrations by various artists have also influenced us. The Bros. Hildebrandt gave the Hobbits big feet and medieval garb. And others have come since and influenced our perceptions one way or another. Peter Jackson (as I understand it) is designing the sets and clothing that will be most recognizable to the most people. That he hired Lee and Howe to oversee this indicates that their illustrations will predominate what we see on the screen. Why? For the same reason that Sydney Pagets sketches of Sherlock Holmes meant that Basil Rathbone was perfect for the part since his appearnace was "set" in the minds of the readers. Tolkien isn't quite that simple, but Jackson had to narrow it down somewhere. I disagree somewhat. My travels in Europe have indicated to me that what I would have thought was medieval was infact Roman, such as a mosque in Istanbul I visited.

Previously I had argued that there isn't much in the way of architecture in Middle-Earth that looked medieval. The Shire isn't medieval at all, nor is the dress in that area. Rivendell should look "elvish" - whatever that may be (hopefully not like Munchkinland), and the flets of Lorien (and its overall appearance) are surely not reminiscent of medieval Europe. Minas Tirith, as decribed by Tolkien seems more akin to Babylon (which Michael has mentioned), and Orthanc is made of a single opaue black adamantine stone (as I recall), though Tolkien himself drew it as a tower of stone or brick, making his written description seemingly at odds with his illustration. As for the the Riders of Rohan and the army of Gondor and how the governments were set up - I'm not an expert and leave to the rest of you to debate.

The argument that if there is no medieval influence in LOTR then why do so many people think that there is, is the same argumant that was used to suggest that Arwen was a stay-at-home and do the knitting type personality. I couldn't say if she was or was not a servile woman since in my view Tolkien never gave enough information to make any judgement about her personality or character.



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