: So surely this means Orcs weren't as good as men when it came to fighting - or maybe it was just sarumans Orcs - perhaps he got them at a Baradur second hand troop sale...

Would Melkor have "created" such orcs from elves that were not
good fighters? I think he must have bred and selected them for one purpose only: to kill. And elves are good fighters, even the
Teleri. Perhaps he goodn't corrupt the better ones in fighting though.

Have you ever thought, by the way, that why Melkor didn't
change men as he did elves? Surely he corrupted us, but not permanently, so that every generation had to (and has to) be corruted separately. Didn't he need to or couldn't he.
And are orcs evil when they are born, or are they just stupid and ugly? And one last question, that probably has been asked several times: are orcs immortal as are elves. Could Melkor
give those elves, that became orcs the same gift Eru gave to us:
the gift of death.