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Re: Elves and Dwarves | White Council Forum Archive - msg 11731

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Topic: Re: Elves and Dwarves    Reply to: msg 11729
Posted: April 16, 2000 at 00:33:36: by Hereward
: : : Agreed that you cannot exclude Men from the Children of
: : : Iluvatar. But by the same token, you cannot exclude the Elves.

: : I'm certainly not excluding the Elves. I'm just pointing out that Elf-Dwarf enmity and conflict are almost non-existent in Tolkien. And what happened between the Dwarves and the Wood-elves in THE HOBBIT had nothing to do with Elf-Dwarf relations. It was due strictly to the poor behavior of the Dwarves.

: Poor behavior of the Dwarves??? They were lost and hungry in the woods. They were attempting to beg for help. I agree that there is little direct evidence of wars between Elves and Dwarves. However, I believe that there is contextual evidence that there existed at the least a distaste, if not an antipathy, between the races.

Although there is no place in which Tolkien openly states that Elves and Dwarves had a long-standing resentment toward one another, there do seem to be enough textual clues to suggest that while the two races were certainly allies they were quite different, with different attitudes and world views, and that there existed a certain discomfiture to their relationship. I do think that the Thorin/Thranduil incident alludes to this, as does the unease expressed toward Gimli in Lorien. I also think that the novel provides sufficient clues that the friendship between Legolas and Gimli is profound in part because they are Elf and Dwarf and that these two races have seldom been close, although they have often been allies. The passage cited earlier in this thread from the Silmarillion concerning the strife between the races is noteworthy, but I think that more emphasis can be placed upon Elrond's words--spoken during the Council--about 'past grievances' between and Elf and Dwarf (as cited earlier). This is strong evidence that there is a history of unrest between the two allied races. I think also, that in reading the novels (including the Hobbit and the LOTR) the reader develops the distinct feeling that there is tension between the two races. This overall "feeling" is not to be discounted as it is one of the great tools of the good author, that of subtle expression.



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