Posted: April 16, 2000 at 18:38:59: by Hereward
: These are both isolated cases with specific causes. Thorin simply misbehaved. Gimli had done nothing wrong but Haldir did not have the authority to set aside Lorien's law, and he risked censure at permitting a Dwarf to enter Lorien.Thorin did not initially misbehave. He was pleading for aid. I think that the tension between Elves and Dwarves explains the stubornness on the part of both Thorin and Thranduil once the dwarf had been taken into Thranduil's Hall. If you recall, both were rather bull-headed. : : The passage cited earlier in this thread from the Silmarillion
: : concerning the strife between the races is noteworthy, but I
: : think that more emphasis can be placed upon Elrond's
: : words--spoken during the Council--about 'past grievances'
: : between and Elf and Dwarf (as cited earlier)... : Nope. Those were Gandalf's words, and the strife clearly applies to both Elves and Men (and more to Men, given the fact that there are more documented cases of strife between Dwarves and Men). I apologize for misquoting here, in fact I was just pulling it from the thread instead of going back to my source. But whether it was uttered by Elrond or Gandalf does not change the point made. And I do think that Gandalf's words here are directed specifically toward the past relationship of Elves and Dwarves.
: : ...This overall "feeling" is not to be discounted as it is one
: : of the great tools of the good author, that of subtle
: : expression.
: I've only ever seen this "feeling" in gamers and online fans who have been sharing impressions with each other for years. Maybe 1 or 2 people in my online experience have ever been able to point to passages for me which could reasonably lead them to believe there was a problem between the Dwarves. Usually when I ask people what led them to conclude this they can't give me an answer. : As best I can determine, most of the people who believe there were problems between the Elves and Dwarves believe so because someone else said there were. When did YOU first decide there were problems between Elves and Dwarves, and why? Well, now you can add me to the list of people who have expressed this "feeling," as neither a gamer or someone influenced by on-line discussions. In fact, my brief time on this board defines the totality of my on-line discourse. As for why I feel this way, I have explained several instances, and at the writing of this posting Bacchus has presented an even more thorough explanation. All of which I agree with. As for when the feeling arose: when I read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion.
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