Posted: May 09, 2000 at 21:47:52: by Michael Martinez
: : "Elves of the West" = Eldar in LOTR. Remember, there were : : originally only the "west elves" and the "east elves", or : : Eldar and Wood Elves. Gil-galad was not high king over the : : Wood Elves.: Of course, however, this raises that spectre of what the Silvan : Elves were. App F of LOTR states: "The Elves far back in the : Elder Days became divided into two main branches: the : West-elves (the Eldar) and the East-elves. Of the latter kind : were most of the Elven folk of Mirkwood and Lorien..." : The LOTR did not appear to have the conception of non-Noldor : and Sindar Eldar in Middle-earth. Tolkien's post-LOTR : writings, IIRC, however did have such groupings as Nandor, : Laiquendi, etc who were Eldar by virtue of having at least : commenced the Great Journey. No, the Noldor and Sindar were there in the story. Tolkien was, after all, dragging forward the traditions of the Silmarillion. And he specifically discusses the Noldor and Sindar in the Appendix. So Gil-galad's title appears to apply to all the Noldor and Sindar of Middle-earth in the Second Age. But when some of them departed from his realm, they renounced his kingship. : The LOTR definition also makes East-elves and Eldar mutually : exclusive. Thus, the Silvan folk appear to be primarily Avari : who migrated west at some point since the people of Greenwood : and Lorien were of the East Elves. Yes. Although the Danians were somewhere in the background, they don't seem to have yet metamorphosed into the Nandor at this time. I'd have to check to be sure and don't have time for that. : If I follow this line of logic, in order to incorporate : Tolkien's writings that included Nandor, Laiquendi, etc., I : think those groupings must be relegated to a small minority : among the Silvan Elves. These were actually later developments. There was no conception of the Nandor, I'm pretty sure, at the time LOTR was written. : : He was born into a Noldorin family. How "pure" his blood was : : doesn't seem to be an issue with the Noldor. I would say he : : ended up king over the Sindar mostly because they ended up : : under his rule in Beleriand. Cirdan's people were Sindar and : : they were the first permanent residents of Balar. Gil-galad : : somehow ended up there along with other Noldor, and after the : : death of Turgon he became High King of the Noldor, so his : : status was immediately elevated. When the survivors of : : Arvernien were taken to Balar, Gil-galad's people were : : increased in number and would have included both Noldor and : : Sindar. : Interesting. Here is probably the untimate source of Gil-galad : being acknowledged as high king of the Elves of the west. But : it's still a mystery as to how that occurred. As you point : out, the first inhabitants of Balar were Sindar under Cirdan. : It must have been quite interesting how survivors of Doriath : would come to recognize Gil-galad's lordship as members of the : Sindarin royal house were present I guess you mean Celeborn, but by any arrangement of the historical material, he should already have left with Galadriel by the time Gil-galad became king. Thingol's house was probably limited to Cirdan, Gil-galad, Elrond and Elros (who were prisoners among the Noldor, though probably presumed dead by their peopel), and maybe no one else as far as Beleriand was concerned. The majority of the Elves had died. : : : : In one account Oropher is said to be hostile to the : : : : Noldor (and, in fact, it was this account which stated he : : : : preferred not to march as part of Gil-galad's army). : : : That's pretty much consistent with my memory; however, I : : : did have the impression that even Oropher acknowledged at : : : least the tactical command of Gil-galad (notwithstanding : : : his unauthorized charge) : : Quite the opposite, his unauthorized charge being the prime : : example of how he conducted himself. : Really? I thought his actions were somewhat analogous to : Gwindor's in the First Age. Gwindor was technically fighting under the standard of Fingon, even though he and his warriors were from Nargothrond (they were only forbidden to serve the Feanorians). And Gwindor was incensed at the cruel torture to which his brother was put. Oropher marched under his own standard, as an equal among equals, and he (for whatever reason) decided he would not wait for Gil-galad's signal to attack. So he apparently took it upon himself to make a decision for the Alliance. Gwindor didn't really do that. He simply reacted to an unbearable provocation. : : Gil-galad would NOT have ordered Celebrimbor to have nothing : : to do with Sauron. That would have been highly : : uncharacteristic of the Elves. : It could be argued that the high king's failure to take more : leadership roles left a power vacuum that allowed, in the First : Age, the Feanoreans to step in take the lead or go off on their : own; and in the Second Age, allowed the high king's theoretical : vassals to make a deal with the devil with tragic consequences : for all. I don't see that. The Feanorians had their own kingdom in the March of Maedhros. I don't know why Tolkien called it a march, except that it was a border region between Angband and east Beleriand, but he definitely called Maedhros a king even after Maedhros ceded the kingship over all the Noldor to Fingolfin. I think basically once you stepped beyond the borders of the king's realm, you could establish your own kingship, if people were willing to call you king. Hence, Turgon and Finrod were also able to become kings after leaving Hithlum. Therefore whatever happened in Eregion, someone had the right to be their own lord there since it was established beyond the boundaries of Gil-galad's kingdom. Perhaps the High Kings actually annointed the other kings, and you couldn't become a king (among the lords of the Eldar) if some high king didn't say so. Thingol was, technically, the highest of the kings of the Eldar in Middle-earth. : : The High Kingship of the First Age came with a high price. : : Both Fingolfin and Fingon had the highest bounties placed on : : their heads by Morgoth. Hithlum was also the foremost realm : : in the wars against Angband. The Union of Maedhros was a : : last gasp (although a very strident one) of the Feanorians. : I think most of Fingolfin's and Fingon's high price was simply : a result of their location. Their realm was close to Morgoth : and quite naturally were the first hit when Morgoth went on the : offensive. On the other hand, the Feanoreans appeared to be : the movers and shakers when the Noldor went on the offensive. Maedhros was right there on Himring, and his cavalry patrolled Lothlann to the east of Angband. THE SILMARILLION says that Hithlum was the most renowned realm in the wars of Beleriand, and Morgoth seems to have worked his way down the chain of command. Fingolfin was the eldest of the Finweans left after Feanor died. : : Until the Dagor Bragollach, it was the High King's cavalry : : which patrolled Ard-galen. The High King's army was : : therefore the most powerful one for several centuries. : : Again, in the Second Age, the High King was the one who : : concluded the treaty with Numenor 100 years prior to the War : : of the Elves and Sauron, : Who else would it have been. The Numenoreans were a naval : power only building coastal or riverine havens. Gil-galad's : realm was the only one they would even come in contact with. : The only other Elven coastal settlement was Edellhond. Numenor had contact with Eregion, and possibly also Edhellond. : : and it was the High King who fortified (or authorized the : : fortification) of Eriador against invasion. : Wasn't Eriador part of his core realm? Gil-galad's core realm ended at the Baranduin.
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