: : Of course, however, this raises that spectre of what the Silvan
: : Elves were. App F of LOTR states: "The Elves far back in the
: : Elder Days became divided into two main branches: the
: : West-elves (the Eldar) and the East-elves. Of the latter kind
: : were most of the Elven folk of Mirkwood and Lorien..."

: : The LOTR did not appear to have the conception of non-Noldor
: : and Sindar Eldar in Middle-earth. Tolkien's post-LOTR
: : writings, IIRC, however did have such groupings as Nandor,
: : Laiquendi, etc who were Eldar by virtue of having at least
: : commenced the Great Journey.

: No, the Noldor and Sindar were there in the story. Tolkien was, after all, dragging forward the traditions of the Silmarillion. And he specifically discusses the Noldor and Sindar in the Appendix.

I definitey agree but I wasn't being clear. What I was trying to say is that the LOTR did not appear to conceive of Eldar other than Sindar and Noldor.

: So Gil-galad's title appears to apply to all the Noldor and Sindar of Middle-earth in the Second Age. But when some of them departed from his realm, they renounced his kingship.

: : The LOTR definition also makes East-elves and Eldar mutually
: : exclusive. Thus, the Silvan folk appear to be primarily Avari
: : who migrated west at some point since the people of Greenwood
: : and Lorien were of the East Elves.

: Yes. Although the Danians were somewhere in the background, they don't seem to have yet metamorphosed into the Nandor at this time. I'd have to check to be sure and don't have time for that.

: : If I follow this line of logic, in order to incorporate
: : Tolkien's writings that included Nandor, Laiquendi, etc., I
: : think those groupings must be relegated to a small minority
: : among the Silvan Elves.

: These were actually later developments. There was no conception of the Nandor, I'm pretty sure, at the time LOTR was written.

I understand they were later developments but to bring those later developments into line with Appendix F which states that the Silvan Elves of Lorien and Greenwood were primarily East Elves (i.e.non-Eldar), that means that Silvan's would have to be primarily Avari.

: : : He was born into a Noldorin family. How "pure" his blood was
: : : doesn't seem to be an issue with the Noldor. I would say he
: : : ended up king over the Sindar mostly because they ended up
: : : under his rule in Beleriand. Cirdan's people were Sindar and
: : : they were the first permanent residents of Balar. Gil-galad
: : : somehow ended up there along with other Noldor, and after the
: : : death of Turgon he became High King of the Noldor, so his
: : : status was immediately elevated. When the survivors of
: : : Arvernien were taken to Balar, Gil-galad's people were
: : : increased in number and would have included both Noldor and
: : : Sindar.

: : Interesting. Here is probably the untimate source of Gil-galad
: : being acknowledged as high king of the Elves of the west. But
: : it's still a mystery as to how that occurred. As you point
: : out, the first inhabitants of Balar were Sindar under Cirdan.
: : It must have been quite interesting how survivors of Doriath
: : would come to recognize Gil-galad's lordship as members of the
: : Sindarin royal house were present

: I guess you mean Celeborn, but by any arrangement of the historical material, he should already have left with Galadriel by the time Gil-galad became king. Thingol's house was probably limited to Cirdan, Gil-galad, Elrond and Elros (who were prisoners among the Noldor, though probably presumed dead by their peopel), and maybe no one else as far as Beleriand was concerned. The majority of the Elves had died.

This was pointed out to me in another thread. First, I wasn't thinking of Celeborn since he and Galadriel had already moved east before the fall of Nargothrond. (I also don't consider Celeborn a memeber of the royal house) Who I was referring to was Elwing and Elrond. However, as was pointed out, Elwing did her disappearing act while Elrond was still young and shortly thereafter he was taken and, as you say, probably presumed dead. In those circumstances, there wouldnt be a member of the royal house the Sindar could latch onto.

You're mentioning of Gil-galad at first confused me but then I remembered his descent from Earwen which provided a convenient fiction for the Sindar to acknowledge his high kingship. When after his return Elrond did not want to create a "New Doriath" the situation was simply left as is.

Russ