Posted: May 10, 2000 at 16:22:17: by Thentaran
: : Well, for one thing, Sauron did not make the Three, the Seven or the Nine. The Seven and the Nine were created by the Mirdain under Annatar's guidance, but they were still the physical creation of the Elves. The Three where probably made by Celebrimbor alone; at the least, Sauron was not a party to their creation.: Indeed, Sauron did not make the three, seven, or nine, BUT, he did have the knowledge of how rings were made. In my opinion, he definitely had the knowledge and power to create more rings of power himself. After all, much ringlore was given by Sauron as "gifts" to the elven smiths, and even Celebrimbor listened to his lore with great interest. : : Celebrimbor had no reason to put any of his own power into his rings because they were not created with the intention of dominating others. Sauron, OTOH, was required to place a great deal of his native strength into the One Ring for this very reason - that it was necessary in order to dominate the possessors of the other rings. : Granted, and I wasn't arguing that. I was merely pointing out that the other rings of power (three, seven, and the nine) did not require the investment of power. This was to head off any arguments which may have started with "Sauron didn't want to invest any more power". : : As it turned out, the Dwarves could not be dominated by an outside will, even that of Sauron; and the Eldar possessed the strength of will to take off the rings when Sauron's purposes became clear to them. Only men fell victim to Sauron's plan. : Indeed, and this was due to the very nature of men and dwarves. The biological structure of men made them susceptible to the rings, while dwarves by their very nature of origins in stone meant that they were very hardy. However, Ar-Pharazon was a man. But a powerful one none the less. And he was a descendent of Earendil. : : As for why Sauron did not give Ar-Pharazon a Ring of Power, I can think of a few reasons: : :
: : - Sauron had already given away all the Rings of Power, and he himself lacked the strength to create new ones (having spent the better part of his native power creating the One).
: He was wearing the one at this time, and he was at the height of his personaly power (IMHO). His powers were enhanced by the ring, and he must have been mighty indeed. He still had his original physical self as well, which must have helped things. I think (personally), that Sauron certainly DID have the power to make more rings. : : - Ar-Pharazon possessed great strength of will; it is possible that he could not have been controlled, even with a Ring of Power.
: Oooh, I dunno. (IMHO) I think that Sauron could subdue any man with the rings. They break down the person's very will, and subjugated them to the power of the One. Ar-Pharazon may not have been aware of the One anyway, and slowly he would have become a wraith, which would have put him totally under Sauron's sway. I think that Ar-Pharazon would have lasted a long time. Look at how long the Witch King was independent. Also when you put on a Ring of Power it seems you would become aware of all the others. Especially ones made by Sauron. : : - Sauron had no desire to increase the already formidable might of Ar-Pharazon. With a Ring of Power in his possession, he may have decided that Sauron had outlived his usefulness. He may have even demanded that Sauron relinquish the One.
: :
: Well, I don't think Ar-Pharazon knew about the One. He certainly didn't, when he conquered Sauron, or else knowing it's might, he probably WOULD have demanded it. Secondly, giving Ar-Pharazon a ring of power would have increased his power, yes, but Ar-Pharazon's existing power was in his fleets and armies. He personally wasn't a great or powerful being. I dunno how to make my idea clear, but I got the impression that Ar-Pharazon was under the sway of Sauron anyway, so Sauron kinda killed the goose which laid the golden egg by pushing him too far. Sauron himself should have known that he couldn't combat the Valar, or Eru, so pushing Ar-Pharazon that far probably wasn't the best idea. I dont think that Sauron wore the One when he went to Ar-Pharazon
otherwise he would have lost it when he lost his physical being. : Maybe the guy was just short sighted? Why destroy Numenor, when he could have become the master of it, and REALLY taken over Middle-Earth for himself? And if he had, then couldn't he have THEN challenged the Valar? (Assuming that Numenor was as powerful as some people make it out to be). : Also, Personally, I think that Saruon should have pulled the strings the other way, and gotten Ar-Pharazon to conquere the elves for him. Okai, assuming Numenor was powerful enough to challenge the Valar, Gil-Galad wouldn't have been a close match in comparison. : Gandalf The Numenoreans were too vain and proud to allow an outsider even one as powerful as Sauron to become their leader. The Faithful would have warned the elves if there was going to be an attack and probably would have fought with the elves. Besides Numenor was still a threat to Sauron and he despised them. He wanted them dead. One more thing. Awhile ago people were questioning Sauron's loyalty to Morgoth. Didn't Sauron try to get the Numenoreans to worship Morgoth?(Instead of himself)
IMHO
-Thentaran
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