Posted: May 10, 2000 at 19:56:16: by Tar-Elenion
: : [I think that is what I said, but I will rephrase]
: : Elwing was at the Havens of Sirion, Gil-galad was on Balar. At
: : this point it is unlikely that Gil-galad was recognized as High
: : King of the Elves of the West. He was likely just High King of
: : the Noldor. It is possible that Cirdan saw him as his overlord.
: : Elwing fled the destruction Havens while Elrond was quite
: : young. Elrond was taken by Maglor and raised by him. It is
: : implied that Elrond participated in the War of Wrath (he seems
: : to have been at the breaking of Thangorodrim). As Maglor did
: : not participate in the War of Wrath, it can be inferred the
: : Elrond left his care.
: :
: : Elwing was the leader of the survivors of the Ruin of Doriath,
: : after she departed this would presumably have fallen onto
: : Elrond. Of course he was unavailable.: [snip] : This is not correct. Elwing was only a child when Doriath was destroyed. It's not clear who, if anyone, led the survivors of Doriath, but she did not. Tuor and Idril arrived with the survivors of Gondolin about two years later. Arvernien was established by Tuor and Idril, and Earendil became its lord after Tuor left in typical father-to-son inheritance. Neither Gondolin nor Doriath's lordships were continued in Arvernien. If I recall correctly the survivors of Doriath are referred to as Elwing's people (will research more on that when I am able). As the sole surviving member of Thingol's House, I dont think it would be a stretch to call her the leader of the survivors of Doriath in Arvernien (whether in name only or in fact). It is interesting that even though the Gondolin and Doriath were no more that their survivors still followed their lords descendants. : Elrond had no claims to kingship anywhere in Beleriand. Even if it could be reasonably shown he should be king in Doriath, there was no longer any Doriath. Even if it could be reasonably shown he should be king in Gondolin, there was no longer any Gondolin. I dont recall saying Elrond should be king in either Doriath or Gondolin. That is beside the point (and now I am forgetting what the point was;)). However he did prefer to reckon his lineage through his mother to Thingol.
: The High Kingship of the Noldor passed to Gil-galad and the lordship of the Sindar passed to Celeborn. Elrond never figured into any inheritances of authority. It is unlikely that Celeborn inherited the lordship of the Sindar. He passed over the Ered Luin before the end of the First Age. JRRT does not say that Celeborn was heir to the Kingship of the Sindar. In UT it is pointed out that Galadriel and Celeborn did not take up any royal titles (in reference to Lorien), but were merelian gaurdians. Gil-galad appointed Celeborn as ruler of South Lindon which was primarily inhabited by Sindar but this is a land. IIRC JRRT said in an early tale that Elrond ruled in the west of the world. He must figure into inheriting any authority as much as Celeborn could.
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