: I`m sure the key to mithril, whatever it is, lies in the unique way the misty mountains (and Numenor), the only two places mentioned as containing mithril, were created; and the fact that they were (geologically speaking) extremely new. The existance of such a vein would *have* to be as unlikely as you say, because the one under Caradhras was unique in Middle-Earth, and also in a place who`s geological history was unique as well - having been raised quite rapidly by Melkor to block the passage of the elves.

: If mithril *is* titanium or something like it, then what Durin`s folk found under Caradhras must have been in a pure form, or one from which it could be easily extracted. They can`t have had the technique you mentioned of extracting it form ore, or they would have obtained it elsewhere, and its value would have been far less.

: The chief argument against it being titanium, is that Sauron, as a Maia of Aule, might have been know how to how to extract it from whatever compounds it`s found in elsewhere. On the other hand, his knowledge certainly had practical limitations; while he seems to have been able to produce explosive devices, they were of limited value and he certainly never dreamed of applying them to create firearms, or his armies would have been even more successful than they were. This, I suppose, is a failure of imagination on his part rather than a lack of knowledge, but it suggests than perhaps he would have been unaware of how to extract mithril from the usual form in which it could found, if that existed out of Moria.

: But is titanium beautiful enough to be mithril? Or does that depend on the alloy?

: : : The process, as you decribe it, does sound a little complex for dwarves to have mastered it so long ago, but let's just suppose they were able to perform all these steps. The question that arises is, how did they discover that. Apart from making fireworks, we have little evidence of Dwarves having great mastery over Chemistry. I imagine, that if they did master this process, they did not discover it themselves but were taught it (maybe by Aule, who did teach them a lot of things about workling metal). As they performed the process as they had learnt it without really understanding it, they were unable to improve or adapt it in any way, and could possible work with only one particular grade or type of ore which only occurred in Moria.

: : : is that anywhere near plausible?

: : I wouldn't put anything past Aule. There are too many unknowns regarding the harvest and porcessing of mithril from Khazad Dum. However, complex mining technique that we have developed required only from around the 1600 to 1700's to evolve. The dwarves had well over 6,000 years to evolve their mining and quarrying techniques. I agree that their chemistry doesn't seem that advanced from the knoweldge that we have, but then some of the chemical knowledge that the greeks and the egyptians had took centuries for us to rediscover. Sometimes the ancients aren't as ancient as we suspect.

: : -RR

Yes, sometimes the ancients aren' as ancient as we think. Also the ancients did not need to know chemistry per say. The refining and alloying of metals was probably a trial and error method to begin with. Once the method was established for one metal or alloy, it would be used a basis for attempting new alloys or refining a new metal. It would be more like a recipe, with no actual knowledge of chemistry coming into play.

By the way, the dwarves first discovered mithril in Erid Luin. It is possible that mithril was present in all mountain chains in ME, but had not been discovered. A personal theory of mine is that the Glittering Caves may have contained mithril deposits.