Posted: May 29, 2000 at 21:49:02: by Thentaran
: : Alright, From what I have read, and peiced together from messages on this board, I think I have a working understanding.
: : Still I should like to bring up a few points that seem hazy to me.
: : 1) When the ring falls into the Cracks of Doom with Gollum, this is the downfall of Sauron, second and last. Does the destruction of the ring kill Sauron, as I think I have heard someone said(or at least how I interrpreted what was said)? But if this is so how could he not know that the ring was still in tact?
: : 2) Sauron was master of the one ring. And the one could control all of the others. Sothis means that Sauron could control the nine even when the ring was not in his possesion (what I have peiced together) But had the ring actually been destroyed, would he still be able to control the wraiths? And wouldn't this tell him his ring was whole long before he caught gollum?: Good questions. I believe that the idea that Sauron thought the Ring destroyed was introduced during the debate at the Council of Elrond. Looking at it again, I think that Sauron had to know that the Ring had not been destroyed. It is explicitly stated by JRRT that the other Great Rings would be effective only so long as the One existed. This was part of Sauron's design in making the One. Obviously, the Nine had not failed because the Nazgul still existed. Therefore the One must still exist. However, Sauron did not know that it had been found until he captured Gollum in 3017. I think that Tolkien wants us to believe that Suaron was in doubt about wether the ring had been destroyed. I think that the evidence that you have just shown disproves that but we are forgetting something...as much as some of us would like to not believe Tolkien was human. When undertaking such a huge task of creating a history of a culture there are bound to be points at which there are contridicitions. I mean there are contradictions in our history too. Also Tolkien was forever changing his mind. : When the Ring was destroyed, Sauron was NOT killed. He was a transcendent, immortal being and could not be killed. However, so much of his original strength was invested in the Ring that when it was destroyed, he was reduced to an impotent spirit. This is actually a much worse fate then death. Imagine the frustration of knowing that you will never again influence anything. Until the end of time, the being who desired dominion over the entire world could only watch helplessly and be ignored. : The reason that Sauron could control the Nazgul without the One in his posession is that he took the Nine into his posession. Agreed. :)
I just thought of something. Wouldn't it be funny to see Sauron be put in with Morgoth? I can just see it now...
Morgoth: "Ahh looks like you failed miserably. What a fool. You let a little hobbit destroy you?
Sauron: Yeah go blow it out your hole. At least I basically kicked The Eldar out of ME. What did you do? Sit on your ass till
The Valar came and kicked it.
Morgoth: "Watch who your talking to ring thief."
Sauron: "Yeah I'm talking to the Vala loser who lost his power, lost the Simirills, and then cowered while some jerk cut me up."
ETC.
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