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Topic: Re: Balrogs with wings?    Reply to: msg 14953
Posted: June 22, 2000 at 09:38:22: by Jan
: The discussion below on John Howe's picture of Gandalf and the Balrog has raised again the question of wether or not Balrogs had wings. I post here a FAQ answer I wrote a while back:

: Did Balrogs fly? Did they speak?

: Did they fly? The debate has largely centered around the description of the Balrog of Moria (LotR 2:5). This description is ambiguous, and may
: or may not describe the Balrog as having wings. Illustrators have been divided, some drawing the Balrog with wings, some without. Tolkien's early drafts of the passage (HoMe 7:203) do little to remove the ambiguity.

: More significant is the later reaction of the members of the Fellowship of the Ring as the Winged Messanger (i.e. flying Nazgūl)
: flew over their heads (this is the Nazgūl that Legolas shot down). Their first guess was that the Messanger was a Balrog! Clearly what the Fellowship saw of the Balrog in Moria suggested to them that it ought to be able to fly, at the very least it must have had wings.

: However it is not difficult to find good reasons for arguing that Balrogs could not fly. Firstly, and most obviously, the Balrog in Moria made no attempt to keep itself in the air after Gandalf broke the Bridge at its feet. (Although we could get round this one if we had to. Even birds will fall if knocked off their perch completely by surprise, and the Balrog does appear to have been taken by surprise. Then, in the confines of the fall in the chasm, perhaps it did not have room to properly spread its wings).

: Significant also are the records of the Wars of Beleriand. There is no suggestion anywhere of Balrogs launching aerial assaults. For example, in the Fourth Battle, Dagor Bragollach, the Balrogs came out in the train of Glaurung - i.e. behind him, on the ground.

: Likewise Gondolin was clearly attacked from the ground, not the air. As Morgoth's army approached Gondolin, ... there was no stay in the advance of the foe until they were beneath the very walls of the city (Silm 243). There is no suggestion that any of the attackers flew over the walls.

: On balance I think we can conclude that Balrogs did have wings, as such they may have been able to glide over short distances, but they were definately incapable of sustained flight.

: Did they speak? They must have been able to. As Morgoth's chief lieutenants and commanders of his army, they must have
: been capable of giving orders to the Orcs and other creatures. No Balrog is recorded as saying anything in The Simarillion, but then the story doesn't ever get 'close' to the them - certainly not as close as it does to the Nazgūl in The Lord of the Rings.

: The Book of Lost Tales (which, while hardly canonical, does give some guide to Tolkien's thinking) does record Balrogs speaking. For example, ... Gothmog lord of the Balrogs, captain of the hosts of Melko, took counsel and gathered all his things of iron that could coil themselve around and above all the obstacles before them. These he bade pile themselves before the northern gate ... (HoMe 2:176). Similarly, Gothmog yelled when he was attacked by Ecthelion (HoMe 2:184).

: The Balrog in Moria never says anything, probably because it did not speak Westron. It seems to have slept from the end of the First Age until awakened by the Dwarves around TA 1980, after that it does not appear to have ever ventured outside Moria. Thus it had no need or opportunity to learn Westron - a knowledge of Orkish tongues would have sufficed. It is worth noting that Shelob does not say anything either, although she must have been able to speak. Her mother Ungoliant could, and so could her daughters in Mirkwood - so she must have been able to. Perhaps she also did not speak Westron - like the Balrog, she would have had little need or opportunity to learn it.

Or perhaps she was not in a talkative mood ?
Does a demon need wings to fly, or an angel ?




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