: :
: : There were only eight of them.

: : It was they who had
: : : to suffer to earn the forgivness of the Valar. Galadriel
: : : and Celeborn are interesting cases as Galadriel, of all the
: : : Noldor, did not swear the oath.

: : Not correct. And besides Galadriel might have been the only one to whom the Valar did not give the permission to return after first age.

: :
: : She also fought against the
: : : Noldor at Aqualonde as she was of Olwes kin. Celeborn was
: : : kinbsman of Thingol and a Teleri. He did not fall under the
: : : ban. Galadriel fell under the Ban because she chose to
: : : leave with the Noldor for Beleriand (and by extension Middle-
: : : Earth) to rule there 'a realm under her own hand' She also
: : : refused the pardon of the Valar at the end of the first age
: : : (The History of Celeborn and Galadriel)as it was her fate
: : : to achevie her desire (the one ring)and use it to rule
: : : (2)

: : There was no "one ring" at the end of the first age.

: :
: : It is not implicitly stated in TLOR that any Noldor other
: : : than the ringbearers departed with Gandalf and Frodo and
: : : Bilbo. It is also mentioned somewhare in Christoper
: : : Tolkeins works, either The Shaping of Middle Earth, or The
: : : Unfinished Tales (See Chapter 4 'The History of Galadriel
: : : and Celeborn')that Celeborn did NOT leave with Galadriel.
: : : That he infact remained behind at Lothlorien and later
: : : Imladris.

: : I think it is in the appendices

: : Snip

:
: TAMIM:::

:
: You missed the point!!!

:
: Your points one by one:

: There was ALOT more than eight.

You wording may have led to a misreading of what you were attempting to say. By your wording you were implying that Galadriel is the ONLY exile who did not swear an oath. Tamim is saying that only Feanor and his sons took the Oath.

: The exiles comprised Feanor and his seven(7)sons and their kin as well as his brother Fingolfin. Feanor and his sons were cursed since they alone took the oath to recover the Silmarils. The other son's of Finwe: Fingolfin and Finarfin (and their people by extension) did not. This is made clear implicitly in the Valenquenta.

: The other 'High' elves Olwe (of Aqualonde) and Elwe (Thingol)
: were not exiles, however, the daughter of Olwe(Earwen)was wife to Finarfin and mother of Galadriel. Finarfin, alone of the sons
: of Finwe, forsook the march to Middle-earth and was pardoned by the Valar. His sons, however did not turn back because of their friendship with the sons of Fongolfin.
: The exiles included:

: Finarfin (who turned back and was pardoned. We can't count him)
: and his children: Finrod (Felagund) Orodreth, Aegnor, Angrod and Galadriel and all their people.

: and

: Fingolfin and his children:Fingon,Turgon and Aredhel
: and all their people.

: They chose to follow Feanor into Middle-Earth so they came under the Ban of the Valar. Feanor and his sons were EXILED by the Valar because of the oath ( I refer you to page 85 of the Valenquenta.

: as far as Galadriel not taking the oath,

: I refer you to pages 83-85 of The Valenqueneta, Chapter9,
: 'Of the Flight of the Noldor'

: Bottom of page 83. "...Finrod was with Turgon, his friend:
: but Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day
: tall and valiant among the contending princes, was eager to be gone. NO OATHS SHE SWORE, but the words of Feanor concerning
: Middle-Earth had knindled in her heart, for she yearned to see the wide unguarded lands and to rule there a realm AT HER OWN WILL" (empshasis mine)

:
: Your statement/point about 'There was no one ring in the first age" I don't understand. Perhaps I was unclear and didn't finish my sentence.

: What I am saying is that Galadriel rejected the pardon of the Valar at then end of the first age for two reasons:

: (1)She still whished to rule a kingdom there.
: In Tolkien's notes (The Unfished Tales. by Christopher Tolkien
: 'Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn'

: (2)It was not her duty (nor her fate) to depart Middle-Earth
: until Sauron was defeated and all that she desired was within
: her grasp.

What I think Tamim is trying to say is that Galadriel had no knowledge of the Ring (it would not be made for hundreds of years) or that Sauron would go bad (it is implied that his repentance was, initially, sincere and he wished to do 'good'). Thus Galadriel's personal motive for staying in Endor could not have to do with those things.

: If I may paraphrase from 'The Unfinshed Tales' from JJR Tolkiens
: letters:

: " Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after
: the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-
: Earth. It was not until two long ages more had passed, when at last all that she had desired in her youth came to her hand,
: The Ring of Power and the dominion of Middle-Earth of which she had dreamed, that her wisdom was full grown and she rejected it, and passing the last test departed from Middle-earth for ever.

: Note by Christoper Tolkien:

: this last sentence (above) relates closely to the scene in Lothlorien when Frodo offered the One Ring to Galadriel(The Fellowship of the Ring II 7)

: "And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen"

: There is no trace of these features (concerning Galdriel's motivations) in The Silmarillion, however Tolkiens notes make it clear that this was how he wanted to develop the character of Galadriel.

: I reiterate that it is nowhere explicit that Celeborn,or Glorfindel for that matter, left with the three ring keepers
: (Elron, Gandalf and Galadriel) and Bilbo and Frodo. Cirdan remained behind since many of the Woodland elves as well as remaining Telerian elves (such as Celeborn) still lingered in Middle-earth after the fall of Sauron. The only indirect
: reference to Celeborn after the departure of the three is in the
: appendices of The Return Of The King. Apendix A. 'The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen'. There is reference to Arwen returning to Cerin Amroth,

: "and she went out from the city of Minas Tirith and
: passed away to the land of Lorien, and dwelt there alone under the fading trees until winter came. Galadriel HAD PASSED AWAY
: (emphasis mine) and Celebornm also was gone (where to?), and the land was silent."
:

He went to Imladris for a time and it is implied that he eventually passed over the Sea.

: Vomact