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Re: Noldor Elves and their disappearing act..... | White Council Forum Archive - msg 15439

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Topic: Re: Noldor Elves and their disappearing act.....    Reply to: msg 15434
Posted: July 07, 2000 at 18:38:29: by Tar-Elenion
SNIP

: I will draw your attention to this Quote from JRRT: "After the overthrow of Morgoth at the end of the First Age a BAN was set on her [Galadriel's] return [to Aman]...". This quote is from The Road Goes Ever On (RGEO), which was published by JRRT in his lifetime and thus can be considered 'canon'.

: SNIP

: I disagree. If it were 'Canon' one would suppose that Christopher would have seen fit to put it it then First Edition.

I am not clear on what you mean by this. CT would have put in the First Edition of what?
What CT did or did not do does not invalidate this fact: JRRT saw fit to have published, in his lifetime, a statement that Galadriel was under a Ban from the Valar to return to Aman, and this Ban was put into effect at the end of the First Age.


: The BAN on Galadriels' return to Aman appears nowhere else
: not in the Letters, The Unfinished Tales, The Shaping of Middle earth. Only in his pencil drafts of the Valenquenta (and early ones too!) I do not dispute that this may be a plot element that
: JRRT was considering and I reiterate, the character of Galadriel
: was undergoing constant revision throught the period when JRRT
: was working on the Silmarillion. In many cases she is the most important character in all the books, since it is her choice,
: her rejection of the ring, that provide for the 'final' redemption of the Noldor.

: Vomact

Yes, a statement that she was under a Ban on returning to the West does appear in LETTERS. I draw your attention to L297 where it states that: 'the Exiles were allowed to return except for a few chief actors of whom at the end of the Third Age only Galadriel remained. In reward for her service against Sauron her ban was lifted.' [paraphrased]

: : : : : : It is not implicitly stated in TLOR that any Noldor other
: : : : : : : than the ringbearers departed with Gandalf and Frodo and


: : Yes, it is implicitly stated. According to 'The Grey Havens' Gildor went with them. Also quote: "With them [the Ringbears] went many Elves of the High Kindred who would no longer stay in Middle-earth..." (from 'The Grey Havens'). The HIGH KINDRED are the NOLDOR.


: The High Kindred also include Teleri. Thingol was a 'HIGH
: ELF' yet he was not A Noldo, Neither wass Celeborn

Neither Thingol nor Celeborn were on the Ship. Gildor, a Noldo, was. 'High Kindred' is refering to the Noldor in this passage.


An aside: You (Vomact) seem (at least on my screen) to be putting colons ':' in front of your statements to distiguish them from other peoples. The program does this automatically I think and if you doing so it becomes harder to follow who is saying what. (If you are not doing this then ignore this aside). :)





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