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Topic: Re: Anduin    Reply to: msg 15731
Posted: July 18, 2000 at 19:56:31: by Michael Martinez
: : I disagree with your statement about Eriador however - it is
: : (IMHO) not as unpopulated as is assumed.

: : The areas the Hobbits in both books travel are limited -
: : along the road mainly.

: : The Hobbits, yes. Also the Dunlendings in Enedhwaith,
: : Dunland and the Coastal strip - the Tharbadians until 2912,
: : who no doubt relocated nearby, and the native Eriadorians -
: : all over the former Cardolan. Also the Dunedain and their
: : followers - the remnants of old Arthedain.

: : It is more likely that the Hobbits being very insular knew
: : nothing of the weight of men living almost on their
: : doorstep - there is potential for the Breelanders themselves
: : to have settled elsewhere - 1000 years (from fall of
: : Arthedain) of population growth is a long time, and I doubt
: : it would result in only 'a hundred houses of the big folk'
: : and 3 small satellite villages.

: : Also, the Hobbits seem not too 'unaware' of big folk, so
: : clearly they must know of some outside of just Bree Land
: : (remember, this can't be Rohan/Gondor, as these races
: : barewly know of Hobbits)

: : Just my thoughts - I think you could safely say there were a
: : good half million non Hobbits in Eriador at the time of the
: : books.

: I doubt that very much to say the least. Eriador is described
: as a desolate place by Tolkien. The part which the hobbit
: travel through is almost completely deserted.

: Breeland was sparsely populated. Only a few villages with a
: few hundred houses. To the west was lindon with it's ever
: dwindling population, Dunland was populated by a seemingly
: primitive people who would not have been very large judging
: from the number which helped Saruman. Eregion was empty and so
: was most of the old Arnor. Rivendell didn't have a large
: population by this time.

I would find it hard to justify an estimate of more than 100,000 people (Elves, Men, Hobbits, and Dwarves) living in Eriador at the time of the War of the Ring, and that is if you include both Dunland and Lindon (neither of which were part of Eriador).

In "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony" Tolkien mentioned that there were no other "settled communities" of Men within 100 leagues (about 300 miles, in my opinion, since a league has no fixed distance) of the Shire.

There were still Men living in Cardolan, but they were very, very few, and probably were mostly hunters and woodsmen living far apart.

There were also Men living in Eryn Vorn (a forested cape just southwest of the Shire). These were related to the Dunlendings and Breelanders, but their numbers appear to be few. They probably were woodmen, not too friendly to the Dunedain, and most likely never associating with the Elves (of whom they were afraid).

Aragorn's people lived beyond the Mitheithel, in the lands called the Angle. We don't know how many there were or even how many settlements they had. All the other ancient inhabitants of Eriador had been wiped out in the various wars, or the Great Plague.

I think that Men were reluctant to colonize Eriador after the fall of both Arnor and Angmar because the power of the Elves discouraged non-Edainic peoples from crossing the mountains and because there was no economic or military reason to do so. Sauron wanted to control the passage between Mirkwood and Mordor, so it makes sense for him to establish colonies in the southern part of the Forest (many Easterlings lived in or near southern Mirkwood). And while Gondor's power ran strong, the easy passage to the west -- through Calenardhon -- was blocked. The remnants of the Northmen held the Vales of Anduin for several centuries as well, and when Eorl settled in Calenardhon he undoubtedly prevented any further incursions into the northern vales.

So the way was blocked. But Orcs, Trolls, and other evil creatures appear to have spread into Eriador on more than one occasion, so it's not like ALL enemies were barred.

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