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Re: Treebeard: What did he know and when did he know it? | White Council Forum Archive - msg 16484

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Topic: Re: Treebeard: What did he know and when did he know it?    Reply to: msg 16475
Posted: August 02, 2000 at 16:38:19: by Mordomin
: [snip]

: : : Pippin mentions that he thought that treebeard had seen him earlier.

: This is the same Pippin that later steals and looks into the palantir. At this point and speculation on the part of Pippin, is at the very least suspect.

Are you suggesting that, because Pippin succumbed to the temptation of the Palantir, a temptation that snared mightier folk than he (Saruman, Denethor, and Aragorn), that this somehow makes Pippin a compulsive liar?

: : That's exactly my point. Only I believe that Treebeard did more than 'see' Gandalf.

: [snip remainder]

: I don't believe this is the case.

: Treebeard had no idea that Gandalf had "fallen out of the story"

:: snip

In fact, Treebeard knows that Gandalf has *not* "fallen out of the story" by the time that the hobbits inform him that he has, because Treebeard has already seen Gandalf since Moria. He doesn't tell the hobbits this, because he does not want to be 'hasty' especially where the affairs of wizards are concerned.

:: ...nor that Saruman had turned traitor until he speaks with Merry and Pipsqueak . . . err, Pippin. ;)

I don't think Treebeard much cared whether Saruman had betrayed the White Council and the West or not. "I have not troubled about the Great Wars", he says. But if he had spoken to Gandalf, as I am suggesting, then he certainly knew all about Saruman's treachery.

: Obviously Treebeard knew of some of the machinations of Saruman, as he is aware that "[Saruman's] orcs are felling trees" on the edge of Fangorn. But it is obvious that Treebeard did not know the entire truth of the matter, and that it took Merry and Pippin, as Gandalf says, "like the falling of small stones" to give him a reason to call the Entmoot. While Gandalf may have guessed at the nature of the "first rumblings" that would be the rousing of the Ents.

: -RR

Gandalf does attribute the rousing of the Ents to the arrival of Merry and Pippen. That does seem strange, if he himself had had a hand in it. I can only think that he wanted to conceal his role in the affair for some reason.




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