: : I understand that. However, the fact that Tolkien rejected
: : the ephemeral idea that Gil-galad was Fingon's son does not
: : *necessarily* mean he rejected the idea that Gil-galad,
: : whatever his parentage, might have been sent to the Falas
: : instead of remaining in Nargothrond. Out of curiousity, is
: : the infamous pencilled note in Grey Annals the only place
: : where Gil-galad is sent to Cirdan?

: Yes, that's the only place. At least, as far as I know it's the only place. We're still pretty much left with Christopher's summations of the whole matter, so it's hard to know what all JRRT had in mind (unless Christopher isn't summarizing).

I found some other references last night in War of the Jewels, Later Questa Silmarillion at page 242:

"But fearing now that all strong places were doomed to fall at last before the might of Morgoth, he sent away his wife Meril to her own folk at Eglorast, and with her went their son, yet an elvenchild, and Gilgalad Starlight he was called for the brightness of his eye." and

"But forseeing evil he commanded Orodreth to send away his son Gilgalad , and wife." and

"But the Lady _______ wife of Inglor forsook the folk of Nargothrond and went with her son Gilgalad to the Havens of the Falas."

True, these entries are when Gilgalad was still son of Finrod (aka Inglor) but it's clear Gilgalad's going to the Havens was a very substantial idea.

Considering, AFAIK, that the only reference to Gilgalad escaping the sack and going to Sirion is the 1965 scribbled isolated note referred to in POME Shibboleth of Feanor at pg 350, I think it might be best to leave both options open. The latter is the "last word" but it doesn't appear to have made it into any of the revisions of the primary texts.

: I don't see how or why Orodreth would send Gil-galad to the Falas, however. The reason Fingon sent Gil-galad there in the ephemeral idea was that Hithlum's power had been directly challenged (I guess -- the note doesn't really say why).

The above quotes appears to give Finrod some sort of foresight before he heads off on the quest with Beren.

: : Anyway, even apart from the problems in having Gil-galad and
: : his guard present at the fall of Nargothrond, I think it's a
: : bit neater to have him avoiding the Mouth of Sirion as an
: : escape route. It get's a bit cludgy to have people cris
: :-crossing over the Mouth of Sirion. I think it's a bit cleaner
: : to have GG go directly to Balar and Tuor and Elwing go
: : directly to the Mouth of Sirion.

: All the Elves were heading to the Mouths of Sirion (for undisclosed reasons -- nowhere does Tolkien make it clear that everyone knew there would be ships there).

: And there is really no way to get Gil-galad directly to Balar.

In the story about the sack of the Havens of the Falas it was stated that some escaped on ships. The escapees, including, in this scenario, Gil-galad and Cirdan, went directly to Balar.

: : : There were other realms which eventually disappeared, and
: : : there were also Sindar living in Eriador. Remember, Sauron
: : : overran many lands. And I tried to show that only the
: : : Doriathrim had a reason to want to leave Lindon.

: : We agree on that. I also think that to the extent other
: : Sindar left Lindon and settled in Eriador that we're not
: : talking about a rejection of Gil-galad as we can say about the
: : Doriathrim. Much of Eriador was within Gil-galad's
: : sovereignty, if not in his core kingdom proper. These Sindar
: : were, I suspect, simply spreading their wings and still
: : recognizing Gil-galad as their overlord and as High King of
: : the Elves of the West - in contrast to the Doriathrim.

: But when did Gil-galad first extend his realm into Eriador? Alas, we'll never know, I guess, unless some placename buried in an unpublished linguistic essay is accompanied by an explanation of how it demarcates the boundary of Gil-galad's realm, or something like that.

My guess is that it has to be somewhat early. The title High King of the Elves of the West I would think refers to something other than just a synonym for King of Lindon. My guess is that some Nargothrond Sindar and other friendly Sindar passed over the Ered Luin early in the 2nd Age. But this was done under the aegis of Gil-galad and they would hve recognized his lordship. This, obviously is in contrast to the Doriathrim who migrated farther - over the Misty's and (possibly) to Edellhond - and did so in rejection of Gil-galad's lordship.

Russ