Posted: August 06, 2000 at 02:58:18: by Michael Martinez
: : Yes, that's the only place. At least, as far as I know it's
: : the only place. We're still pretty much left with
: : Christopher's summations of the whole matter, so it's hard
: : to know what all JRRT had in mind (unless Christopher isn't
: : summarizing).: I found some other references last night in War of the Jewels,
: Later Questa Silmarillion at page 242: Well, I'm glad I qualified my "that's the only place". :) Okay, I'm convinced, the early flight to the havens is reasonable, and Tolkien could have meant that Gil-galad escaped BEFORE things got hairy in Nargothrond, although he still looks wimpy that way. I think it would be better if he fought a slow retreat, driven from the city. : : All the Elves were heading to the Mouths of Sirion (for
: : undisclosed reasons -- nowhere does Tolkien make it clear
: : that everyone knew there would be ships there). : : And there is really no way to get Gil-galad directly to
: : Balar. : In the story about the sack of the Havens of the Falas it was
: stated that some escaped on ships. The escapees, including, in
: this scenario, Gil-galad and Cirdan, went directly to Balar. Yes, but if Gil-galad was sent to the havens, which havens did Tolkien have in mind? The Falas had two havens, but Tolkien often mentioned the havens of Sirion as well (though these existed after the fall of the Falas -- but Nargothrond continued for several decades after Cirdan lost the Falas). : : But when did Gil-galad first extend his realm into Eriador?
: : Alas, we'll never know, I guess, unless some placename
: : buried in an unpublished linguistic essay is accompanied by
: : an explanation of how it demarcates the boundary of Gil-
: : galad's realm, or something like that. : My guess is that it has to be somewhat early. The title High
: King of the Elves of the West I would think refers to
: something other than just a synonym for King of Lindon. My
: guess is that some Nargothrond Sindar and other friendly
: Sindar passed over the Ered Luin early in the 2nd Age. But
: this was done under the aegis of Gil-galad and they would have
: recognized his lordship. This, obviously is in contrast to
: the Doriathrim who migrated farther - over the Misty's and
: (possibly) to Edellhond - and did so in rejection of Gil-
: galad's lordship. I thought you and I had agreed some time ago that "High King of the Elves of the West" was probably some sort of "tribal" title, and not a geographical one?
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