White Council

Re: Some thoughts on Gil-Galad | White Council Forum Archive - msg 16807

White Council Forum Archive
Original Xenite.Org White Council Forum Archive

Site Map


All Archives Top White Council Archive Index Archive 84 Index


VISIT LIVE TOLKIEN FORUM
Topic: Re: Some thoughts on Gil-Galad    Reply to: msg 16804
Posted: August 09, 2000 at 18:11:54: by Russ
:snip

: : : My reason for this preference:

: : : 1. I find it balances more the geneological tree of Finwe's house
: : : to have Fingon also have a son... Thus, all three of Fingolfin's
: : : children have a child each, and (with the exception of Angrod)
: : : the (younger) children of Finarfin don't have children. On the
: : : other hand having Angrod have grandchildren, while all his siblings
: : : and the older Fingon aren't even married... it creates an
: : : imbalance...

: : Actually, it seems to balance it the other way with the scion of Finwe from each branch NOT having a child: Fingon and Finrod.

: Except that in that in the case of the house of Finarfin, all three, Finrod, Aegnor and Galadriel

Celebrian

: don't have children, while Angrod not only has children, he also has *grandchildren*. That's not balanced in my view...

As did Turgon of the House of Fingolfin.

: PS1. On the other hand I do applaud Tolkien's placing Orodreth as son of Angrod - he always seemed like a weaker character to me, first being overruled by the Feanorians and then by Turin - his being relatively young could cause such a thing.

True.

: PS2. Which however makes me in turn not like the placing of Finduilas - I feel that there should be no adult great-grandchildren of Finarfin at the time: therefore if I was Tolkien I'd make her Orodreth's younger sister, rather than his daughter - moreover her being the daughter of the king of the hidden kingdom in love with a mortal is perhaps a bit too repetitive of both Idril and Luthien...

Actually what surprised me is that there weren't more. The generational patterns described by Tolkien in Law and Customs of the Eldar apparently don't apply to the Noldorin royal family.

: : I think it's key that it passes to the Finarfinian line. Remember that Gil-galad was not just High King of the Noldor; he also had to be able to be High King of the Elves of the West, as reported in LOTR, and have the loyalty of the Sindarin population of Lindon and Eriador during the Second Age. Only a Finarfinian, who were descended from the Telerin royal line through Earwen of Alqualonde could hope to have such loyalty especially since the line of Fingolfin was regarded by the Sindar as having some guilt in the Kinslaying of the Teleri at Alqualonde.

: Such games with kinship have their value - they are used greatly in the Silmarillion. But sometimes it seems to become a cage rather than a tool. If the Sindar blamed Gil-Galad who was probably no more than a child, or even unborn, at the time of the Kinslaying, then they were *far* too narrowminded for my tastes. After all they don't seem to have hostility for Elrond or Earendil...

Now you also want to change the Eldar? That's the way they were. Look at Thingol and his attitude towards the Atani. You have to accept their faults

Anyway, probably Elrond's descent from Thingol overrode their descent from Turgon in the hearts and minds of the Sindar. As to Earendil, it probably helped that he married Idril and also wasn't around for that long.

: Moreover there are a number of places where Grey-elves accepted the kingship of Fingolfians, most prominent in Gondolin.

There weren't that many Sindar in the north. The vast majority were living under Thingol, Cirdan and Finrod.

: And finally I feel there's a further balance in that in the second Age there exists one Feanorian (Celebrimbor), one Fingolfian (Gil-Galad)and one Finarfian (Galadriel)...

Elrond was a Fingolfinian on his Noldorin side.

: : : 3. I feel it's more nice (storywise) that the Kingship passes from
: : : Fingolfin to a son to a brother to a nephew, rather than from Fingolfin
: : : to a son to a brother to a first cousin twice removed. Come on - "first
: : : cousin twice removed"? Moreover this makes a non-issue of Galadriel
: : : not having become High Queen... :-)

: : This happens quite often: look at the how the crowns passed in Numenor and Gondor. I think it's nice that all the lines of Finwe got a shot at the High Kingship. I think that's quite appropriate.

: Well the line of Feanor never got High Kingship either - neither Maedhros nor Feanor seem to have ever been called High King. And rather than having three Fingolfian and one Finarfian High-king I think it's better to have four Fingolfians...

Feanor was high king, or rather simply King of the Noldor, until he abandoned Fingolfin's host in Aman.

Russ




Contact us | SF Fandom | Privacy Statement


SF Fandom Sites

SciFi Forums
Archives
Forum Short Addresses
Other SciFi Sites

Xenite.Org Network

Science Fiction & Fantasy
SF Fandom
SF Worlds
The Queen of Swords
Tolkien Studies

Popular Network Sites

Entertainment Search Engine
Grace Park
Harry Potter News
History of Xena
Lord of the Rings News
Mizuo Peck
Poster Store
SciFi Search Engine
Star Wars News
White Cheese Dip
Witch World Page
Xena: Warrior Princess
 

This page is copyright © 1997-2007 by Michael L. Martinez. All rights reserved.
No portions of this page may be reproduced electronically or otherwise without express permission from the copyright holder, except as occurs in normal browser caching and page indexing.

No random scifi pages were incorporated into this archive. However, the truth about Balrogs may have been mentioned at least once. Learn more about Balrogs: Balrog of Moria. Read more Tolkien Essays.

Created by SEO Specialist Michael Martinez. Search engine optimization and search engine optimization provided by SE cOnsulting.