: I was just looking through the dafts of LotR (HoME 6-9) the other day and I recall seeing a reference implying Celebrian was born in SA Eregion, but damned if I can find it now :( (was reasearching something else). It might not be unlikely that she was born in that time, it being a peaceful period of Eldarin expansion. When Amroth was being considered the son of Celeborn and Galadriel did anyone else get the impression that he too was born then? Might be relevant for determining a possible birth period for Celebrian.

In Unfinished Tales the version with him as son of Galadriel has him born sometime between 350 and 400 of the Second Age.

: : In fact that mention in the Law and Customs that elves usually get married when around 50 doesn't seem to jive with any other text of Tolkien... In all other texts they seem to wait from hundreds to thousands of years...

: It does not seem to apply to the royals/nobles. What we need to look at is info on the commoners.

There are precious little commoners with names, but even they seem to support the "hundreds to thousands of years" idea. Beleg, Mablung, Glorfindel don't seem to be married even though they had lived many hundreds of years *atleast*. Daeron wasn't married either though his being in love with Luthien might have caused that. Voronwe was born in Nevrast, yet hundreds of years later was still unmarried and "young according to the count of the Eldar". Eol had also lived many hundreds of years atleast before he met Aredhel.

: : : : Such games with kinship have their value - they are used greatly in the Silmarillion. But sometimes it seems to become a cage rather than a tool. If the Sindar blamed Gil-Galad who was probably no more than a child, or even unborn, at the time of the Kinslaying, then they were *far* too narrowminded for my tastes. After all they don't seem to have hostility for Elrond or Earendil...

: According to Grey Annals the major part of the population of all the Noldorin realms was Sindarin. "..though the Sindar were not numerous they much out numbered the hosts of Feanor and Fingolfin... whereby in all the countries save only in Doriath though the princes of the Noldor were the Kings their followers were largely of Sindarin race".

Thank you... :-)

: : Eureka - have Gil-galad's mother be a Sinda! ;-)

: She was.

Thanks again... When Tolkien's idea happen to coincide with my own we know that he is right... :-)

: : [snip]
: : : : And finally I feel there's a further balance in that in the second Age there exists one Feanorian (Celebrimbor), one Fingolfian (Gil-Galad)and one Finarfian (Galadriel)...

: : : Elrond was a Fingolfinian on his Noldorin side.

: Maglor is going to be upset that he was forgotten again (ref. to another thread on this sight)

Yeah, but he had disappeared and didn't enter the tales...

: Is Feanor ever called King, High King? They are references in Grey Annals to the effect of 'after Feanor dies the overlordship passes to Fingolfin' but is he ever actually called King of the Noldor or even (directly) overlord?

: Besides Gil-galad should have remained Feanors descendant.;)-

Nah... have you forgotten the rule for the Noldorin High-Kingship? "No wanker can be king, and all Feanorians are wankers..." :-)

Aris Katsaris