The White Council

Re: Mallorns

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : I do not think winter actually came to Lorien in the literal sense while the Ring was there so maybe the leaves did fall in the winter but while Lorien was under the power of the Ring it seemed like spring.

: TreeBeard.........

: : : : : : Hmm, why do we think the trees need rings or magic to survive? Maybe they naturally live very long lives. The Mallorn in the Shire grew without any Rings, just the magic dust which may have been just a nutrient/growth aid. The trees were still there long after Galadriel left.

The mallorns clearly do not thrive in just ANY environment, as Gil-galad had no luck gettign them to take root in Lindon. Aside from the Party Tree, the only other mortal land that mallorns grew in was Numenor. Galadriel was successful due to special arts and magic that she employed -- knowledge likely gained from her stay with Melian in Doriath, where the Sindarin Teleri were far more attuned to care and love of growing things than the Noldor were accustomed to.

: : The Elves of Lorien would not have sailed to the West if Lorien still remain intact, it was their home and one important factor was the mallorns.

I disagree. The end of Nenya's power increased the elves longing for the sea and a return to Aman. The fading of Lorien was simply an attendant effect which may well have hastened their desire to leave -- they did indeed cherish the mallorns. But by itself? If that were the case, the destruction of Beleriand, particularly Doriath (of which Lorien was merely a shadow) would have sent all the elves back to Aman, yet many remained even into the Third Age.

: : After Nenya's failing, the mallorns started to fade( to die) which was shown by the falling leaves in winter( with Nenya, old mallorn leaves would fall in spring at the same time new leaves would spout forth.) Without Nenya, time was a taking a toll on the mallorns. If it couldn't grow anywhere then it needed some support of some sort. Galadriel's ring may have extended the mallorns beyond their life span. The trees' life may have been the equivalent of adulthood. Without Nenya, the life of the mallorns was subject to standard time flow which put the tree into its late adulthood.

Most likely. The effect of the Three was to preserve, to slow or stop the march of Time.

: : The mallorn in the shire was still in its infancy in comparison to Lorien. The magic dust may have been a nutrient/growth aid but I find it unlikely considering they used a grain of the dust which tell me that there is magic involved.

Without the magic of Galadriel I don't think it could have taken root.

: : I don't think we were saying that the mallorns required a Ring to start off because Galadriel had the mallorns long before she started using Nenya. All I'm saying is that she extended the life span of the mallorns in Lorien.