The White Council

Re: Narya a different perspective

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : : : : : a) Theoden's spirit was influenced by Grima Wormtongue and became harden until Gandalf rekindled the heart of Theoden. Gandalf raised Theoden's courage and brought Rohan, an important force, into the war.

: : : >> Tolkien said< I believe, that the old Gandalf the Grey would not have been able to resurrect Theoden. Thus leading me to believe it has nothing to do with the ring.

: : : : Gandalf presents himself as a leader throughout the : : : : story. Leadership and courage are traits related to the element of fire. It is a type of brightness which shines through Gandalf and his ability to raise hope in people.

: : : >> Throughout time gandalf had been a friend of the Children of Illuvatar even venturing into Middlle-earth before the Third Age. His power even among the Valar was great (he being counselor to Lorien). I once again think this is not a power of the ring

: : : The Three as confirmed by Tolkien were not rings of war and not made ofr destruction. And as I beleive you previously stated, the rings were meant to preserve and heal, to slow down time. So this leads me to beleive that this was a power that Gandalf or Olorin already had.

: : : As for the purpose it was used for, I think it may have been used to kindle the hearts of people. But I think Gandalf was already good at it for he spent a lot of time with Nienna in Valinor. I think rather he used it to help him endure the perils, hardships, and weariness of his mortal body he was in.

: : : Jon

: : I don't think Gandalf would have learned how to rekindle the hearts of people by being with Nienna. I think Gandalf learned patience, pity, compassion from her, qualities relating to Nienna's dominion. I don't think rekindling the spirit fits her description.

: : As a Maia, Gandalf was powerful(but power means a lot of things) Each Maia relates to a Valar in abilities. If Gandalf served Lorien, then he would understand the abilities of dreams. Since he also served Nienna then patience, pity, understanding through sorrow, and compassion was learned. I don't see the leadership quality in Gandalf (otherwise he would have been the leader of the Five Wizards) before coming to Middle-earth. He was actually fearful of going which lead me to believe the Ring of Fire helped accentuate his leadership trait.

: : As for Theoden, Gandalf didn't cast some spell to turn Theoden around but applied a type of psychotherapy which fired up Theoden's spirit.

: And the Ring could have had no effect on any of these things. Gandalf as Gandalf was a great leader of men who even Aragorn followed without question. He was charismatic and wise without the need of the Ring. He was also a wizard with powers of his own and could have done all the things you mentioned with his inherent powers. PIPEWEED!!!. This is all very very circumstantial. The only one I would go along with is his influence over Theoden but even then I am sure Tolkien would have mentioned it as having an effect. We can read a lot into this ourselves but I think we are trying to read to much.

: : TreeBeard......

Way to go Tree Beard!!!!! I agree completely!!!