The White Council

Re: Narya a different perspective

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

Okay, this has been a heated debate (no pun intended) and there's been very good points raised on all sides. However, from a bystander's point of view, I agree with points made on both sides.

However, I'd like to clear a few points up. WHO THE HELL SAID THAT GANDALF/OLORIN WAS SCARED OF CHALLENGING SAURON?!?!?!?!?! Okay, the Valar decreed that they would never set foot upon MiddleEarth and they would not fight on behalf of the elves again. However, the Maia were sent to help turn the hearts of the free people, and muster a "last stand" if you will. There's never been any mention of any of the Maia challenging Sauron at all. They weren't allowed to... Indeed, they were clothed in flesh, so that they know of mortal pain, and suffereing, and the main part of their power was taken away.... There is no question of the leadership, as Curunthir was the most subtle and powerful of the maia, but Mithrandir's knowledge and wisdom goes deeper. Saruman the white was acknowledged as the leader, but what did this mean? Sweet nothing.

As for Gandalf and fire, it is fairly evident that Gandalf is linked to fire, the fireworks, the fire spells, etc. Gandalf is evidently an EmberMage, by today's fantasy standards. But I doubt that Tolkien has any idea what that term means. The best quote to support this is "I am a servant of the secret fire, servant of the fire of Anor" Gandalf obviously identify with fire. Now, the question is "what's the ring got to do with it?" Does it enhance Gandalf's powers? Well, it should, otherwise, what's the point?!? But to what degree? Gandalf was always a flame weilder, and it just happened that Cirdan had the ring of fire..... Should Cirdan not have had the ring of water, as he is the keeper of the Havens? However, by chance or design, he obtained the ring of fire, and passed it on to Gandalf, an EmberMage.

As for using other spells to beat the wargs to death, such as sleep, flesh-to-stone etc, I'm willing to bet that Tolkien had never heard of any of them!! They are the result of modern fantasy...

The ring of fire I believe, is merely one of the three with a ruby, and no more.... It is not inherently any different to the others, and Gandalf's use of fire, i believe is completely coincidental. Galadriel's longing for the West is understandable, as she is the one of the last to have seen the Blessed Realm left in MiddleEarth. She is REALLY OLD!! Heck, she's Elrond's mother-in-law!! If anyone was to long for the West, she should be it.

And basing your opinion on fact?!? We're talking about a work of FICTION!!! You know all the people who say Iago is gay? Well, is that fact? Factually, was Iago gay? It's a moot point, and dependes on how you interpret certain actions, and words...

What I have said is merely my opinion, and my ideas from years of loving Tolkien. You may agree on certain points, and not others, but there's no reason to take it as "fact"!!

Get back to me

Gandalf