The White Council

Re: About Bladorthin and bearded dwarves

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: - about Bladorthin, and this is specially addressed to Michael : I thought your point about this King being the King of Dale and : possibly Girion's father very convincing, but eventually in the : Hobbit a very clear distinction is made between the KING Under : the Mountain (Thror or Thrain) and Girion the LORD of Dale; : also, on the very page we learn about Girion and Bladorthin one : is titled Lord and the other King (in the very same paragraph : discribing the Dwarves marvelling upon the treasure); then : people from the Lake want to crown Bard a King, but no King of : Dale before that, so Bladorthin must have been King of : somewhere else after all...

Well, there was no King of Laketown. What the Master says when the Men start yelling "King Bard! King Bard!" is:

   'Girion was lord of Dale, not king of Esgaroth,' he said.   'In the Lake-town we have always elected masters from among   the old and wise, and have not endured the rule of mere   fighting men.  Let "King Bard" go back to his own kingdom --   Dale is now freed by his valour, and nothing hinders his   return.  And any that wish can go with him, if they prefer   the cold stones under the shadow of the Mountain to the green   shores of the lake.  The wise will stay here and hope to   rebuild our town, and enjoy again in time its peace and   riches.' 

Note here the Master says "lord of Dale" but he also says that Bard can "go back to his own kingdom". Tolkien does consistently call Girion "Lord of Dale", but he also refers to King Theoden as "Lord of the Mark" in many places. "Lord" and "King" are sometimes used interchangeably by Tolkien.

You raise an interesting point. I can't say I have proof that Girion was indeed a king -- not handy, at any rate. Maybe I'll be able to research this further at some point and offer a better response.

: Anyway, from an external point of view I do not think this can : be "definitely" agreed upon, I would guess Tolkien had after : all no idea who Bladorthin could be, and just wanted to make : the treasure more impressive by including arms made for : kings...

Well, for what it's worth, "Bladorthin" was originally to be the name of the wizard. Tolkien seems to have liked the name, so he retained it as the name of the "great king Bladorthin".

: Also, I am not sure to what extent The Hobbit was : modified after LOTR, but I guess it must have only dealt with : those passages directly connected to it, that is mainly Gandalf : at Dol Guldur and the Ring of course; hence it remains an : "early" work and it is no wonder some details do not really fit : in (even taken in consideration the tone of the narrative that : explains such scenes as the Trolls...)

Well, the revisions are pretty extensive according to THE ANNOTATED HOBBIT. Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 5 got the most extensive changes. Whole passages of several paragraphs each were rewritten. Elsewhere changes were limited to adding or substituting new paragraphs or just changing a sentence here or there. Some of the changes also occurred in 1966.

Some of the changes concern Gollum; there's a change to introduce the word "mithril"; there were changes concerning the legends of the Elves; changes in geography; and many little details.

: Nevertheless, what a marvellous book! : Frederic