The White Council

Re: Radical New Bombadil

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: I find that sort of comical Padster, you lecture everyone about defining Bombadil, and what do you turn around and do? Claim he's an Ainur!!!

Ahhh hah! Not at all. I don't have to define anything about Bombadil, for to define is to try and impose one's own vision upon the character. The Ainur exist as the angelic beings of Ea, the Ainur *are*! Therefore I do not have to, and have not, defined Bombadil in any other way than to stand back and fit him into the already established order, without trying to change him.

Not in that orders hierarchy! for to do so would be to try and impose one's own view on where Bombadil stands in relation to the other powers of the world.

: Personally, I've stopped trying to define him, I've come to the inclusion he's undefineable. He really doesn't fit any mold, he's unlike to everyone (Valar, Maiar, elves, men, dwarves, even Eru himself. I've personally accepted him to truly be one of a kind.

And in doing so you define Bombadil well outside any order determined by Tolkien himself. Bombadil is this! Bombadil is that! Bombadil unlike to everyone! Are you seriously suggesting that Bombadil is somehow seperate and different and outside Eru's scheme of things? Eru created everything! That includes Bombadil. Eru created the Ainur, they *must* include Bombadil.

: Personally, I dislike allegory and I know Tolkien tried to avoid it (which I admire), but if I had to pick one thing that was "allegoric" it would be Tom. A statement from Tolkien about power, domination, and control. A way of showing that one can only truly be free if he let's those around him be free. That I believe is Tom's purpose. He's a fascinating creature who lives a very unique and better(?) lifestyle than most, if not all, of us. : As for his relevance to the story, he is a strong contradiction to the image of Sauron. While Sauron strives for domination of all, Tom pushes that away and will not dominate anything. Maybe this is meant to give a little more substance to an antagonist that we never "hear" or "see". Quite possibly Tolkien never intended that, but it seems to work anyway.

That he has given up power and dominion cannot be argued since its said plainly enough in LOTR (though if he has then why does he use his power to overwhelm and therefore dominate such creatures like Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wights?).

As for his contradiction of Sauron, well that ends with Domination and that's it. Which, granted, is Sauron's main objective, but by no means the whole story about Sauron.

By accepting many of the visions of Bombadil thrown around, you (the collective you) are asking that we (the collective we) should accept direct contradictions, such as the ludicrous idea that he is one of the Valar (Aule), or invent something that Tolkien NEVER alluded to. Personally I would not want to bastardise what is already there by trying to justify it in terms that you (the collective again) feel most comfortable with to satisfy your own needs and desires for characters not fully explained.

Cheers

Padster