The White Council

Re: Witch King revisited

Tolkien and Inklings Discussion

: : Going through the Archives, I found a discussion on the power of the Witch King (V. Gandalf) that caught my attention and interest, and seem never to have been concluded. So, being mischievous, I would like to restart it: : : I have always believed that, apart from Sauron, the three most powerfull beings in M-E was the Balrog, the Witch King, and Mithrandir- others (such as elves) may be more powerfull under the right circumstances, but, in general, these three are the ones with most "UMPH!". Now, Gandalf and the W K seems to be about evenly matched before Moria but to have too much at stake to challenge eachother for real (remember the issue was not whether or not they bagged eachother, but whether or not they could find/protect the One, and whether they would be around to influence events (the council of elrond or the Fellowship) later). : : However after having triumphed over the Balrog (which he only did when there was no other way out) Gandalf/Mithrandir was the most powerful: However, when Sauron sent out his dread captain to do war on Gondor, was it not likely that he foresaw some confrontation with mighty opponents? would he not have imbued him with special powers derived directly from Sauron himself? : : I have always thought that the W. K. was imbued with some special power from the Dark lord during the conquest of Gondor, powers that would become void if used and so was reserved for the confrontation with Mithrandir (as it were- it might have been reserved for Glorfindel or saruman or whoever- remeber that there is such a thing as fog of war, you do not always know all that you are going to face). If I am correct, they would be fairly evenly matched.

: well, do not forget that Gandalf was presumed dead, and I am sure Sauron believed the same. We can assume IMHO that Sauron was a megalomaniac, so he did not even think of losing. : The WK should not fall by the hand of a man, Gandalf is a maiar, so he could have done it... : Sauron knew his opponents, he should be able know the elves of Rivendell would not be in Gondor, Saruman would not be the kind of opponent to "stand and fight". : And maybe the WK believed he could beat Mithrandir, but I am sure he would have not been a match (remember what Gandalf says to Gimli about being dangerous). : Well, thatīs my humble beliefs : Doc

You continue to belive that Sauron knew every and all movement of his enemies, which I believe is wrong- Frodo creeping into Mordor?. Even today, with our advanced tech (which can probably be likened to the magic used in scrying devices of M-E), there is such a thing as fog of war, Kosovo? does NATO know all the movements of the Serbs?, I assume not, just as I assume that neither Sauron nor Mithrandir, Galadriel or Elrond did not. And for the W-K, let us agree, Sauron could smear Gandalf/Mithrandir all over Minas Tirith's walls, the W-K cannot, I agree. However, would it not be logical for the master of dark sorcery to imbue his prime servant with some part of his power for him to be able to do the same? Why would the elves of Imladris not be in Gondor? Elrond considers sending some (Glorfindel?) in the Fellowship, and others could have gone, just as in the last alliance. Yes I know it was the LAST alliance but some could go on their own- or you can see it as an alliance only if you have powers fairly equal as allies. If you were a general, you would lose big-time, underestimating your opponent's capabilities is fatal, as Hitler and several others (possibly including NATO's civil heads, though I make no other connection between the two) have dismally discovered in the course of history.;)